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knares



Member Since: 22 Jun 2017
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 780

Australia 2005 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zambezi Silver

or if the oil pressure is working against itself somehow, like a blown seal, leaking internally, cracked housing, had this on a tractor once RR 2005 4.4 petrol
Any spelling mistakes are the fault of spellchecker
Previous MG J2, CITROEN light 15 x 2 gone unfortunately
Present MERC 180e, RANGE ROVER L322, JAGUAR XJS, MERC 280SE, MG F, JAGUAR S-Type 6v 2003, jaguar s-type 8v 2004, Ford Cougar

Post #713546 8th Mar 2025 3:37am
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GraemeS



Member Since: 06 Mar 2015
Location: Wagga area
Posts: 2633

Australia 

Jacking by either front suspension arm isn't kind to the ball-joints because they aren't designed to take weight pushing the ball into its cup. Steering forces are basically horizontal and much less because the wheel moves. I'll jack the rear under the wishbones because of the type of bush, but not the front.

Negative camber makes steering heavier especially at slower speeds so don't have more than it should.

I've noticed that my son's D4 has significantly lighter steering than my L322, but it has a lighter engine too.

Post #713551 8th Mar 2025 8:14am
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MarianaWestminster



Member Since: 14 Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 718

United Kingdom 

Could be Knares, I'm not sure if it's lubricated by the power steering fluid or if it's greased somewhere internally.

Post #713553 8th Mar 2025 9:44am
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MarianaWestminster



Member Since: 14 Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 718

United Kingdom 

Regards internal leakage knares I was able to check this during my power steering pressure test.

The pressures at full left and full right lock were identical and also matching to the pumps maximum output figure.

If there had been internal leakage one or both of those figures would have been less than the pumps maximum output suggesting a bypass of fluid. (At least that's how I understand it) but a good thought.

Thanks for explaining that GraemeS, I didn't know this previously so I won't be jacking up under the arms again.

This means that virtually all aspects of the system and suspension have been checked.

All I am left with is alignment and possible internal binding of the rack.

Could bad alignment really effect the weight of the steering at parking and driving speeds?

Post #713554 8th Mar 2025 9:50am
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MarianaWestminster



Member Since: 14 Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 718

United Kingdom 

Booked in for an alignment check today.

Just to rule that out too.

Post #713622 9th Mar 2025 9:03am
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MarianaWestminster



Member Since: 14 Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 718

United Kingdom 

Alignment results are in.

The gentleman checking it stated it was 'massively out' there is a lot of positive toe (toe in, I believe) on the front end.

LH front toe: +0°55'
RH front toe: +0°59'
Total front toe: +1°54'

Picture of the alignment printout below.

Adjustments could not be made today as the track rods and ends are seized solid. I will have to replace parts first.

Any knowledgeable folk understand this? Could it be my heavy steering is caused by all this positive toe?

Many thanks for any wisdom in advance!


Click image to enlarge

Post #713666 9th Mar 2025 10:49pm
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knares



Member Since: 22 Jun 2017
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 780

Australia 2005 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zambezi Silver

i have no idea
its got before and current, before what ????
what are they supposed to be RR 2005 4.4 petrol
Any spelling mistakes are the fault of spellchecker
Previous MG J2, CITROEN light 15 x 2 gone unfortunately
Present MERC 180e, RANGE ROVER L322, JAGUAR XJS, MERC 280SE, MG F, JAGUAR S-Type 6v 2003, jaguar s-type 8v 2004, Ford Cougar

Post #713670 10th Mar 2025 2:02am
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MarianaWestminster



Member Since: 14 Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 718

United Kingdom 

The before is 'before adjustments' and the current should be read as 'after adjustments' but no adjustments could be made at the time due to seized rusty components.

As far as toe goes the WSM says it should be a nominal 5' which I assume means 0°5' with a tolerance of +/- 0°6'

Post #713672 10th Mar 2025 6:37am
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knares



Member Since: 22 Jun 2017
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 780

Australia 2005 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zambezi Silver

but no adjustments could be made at the time
so why aren't the readings the same RR 2005 4.4 petrol
Any spelling mistakes are the fault of spellchecker
Previous MG J2, CITROEN light 15 x 2 gone unfortunately
Present MERC 180e, RANGE ROVER L322, JAGUAR XJS, MERC 280SE, MG F, JAGUAR S-Type 6v 2003, jaguar s-type 8v 2004, Ford Cougar

Post #713675 10th Mar 2025 7:38am
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MarianaWestminster



Member Since: 14 Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 718

United Kingdom 

Good spot Knares, I have no idea why. I'll have to ask that question!

Post #713682 10th Mar 2025 8:39am
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GraemeS



Member Since: 06 Mar 2015
Location: Wagga area
Posts: 2633

Australia 

Seized track rod ends are more likely the cause than the toe-in but everything counts.

Post #713695 10th Mar 2025 11:31am
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MarianaWestminster



Member Since: 14 Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 718

United Kingdom 

I've had both track rod end balljoints disconnected from the wheel knuckles Graeme and they articulate by hand so not sure its that.

I'm also not holding my breath that fixing the alignment will fix the steering but I have to try.

Post #713700 10th Mar 2025 12:06pm
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RRfranz



Member Since: 25 Dec 2023
Location: Tirol
Posts: 13

Austria 2011 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Santorini Black

the toe-in is a disaster.
set the toe-in to 0 degrees and 5 minutes each side. total 0 degrees 10 minutes.
that is 1.48 mm toe-in on a 20 inch rim. 1 degree 54 minutes is about 15 mm toe-in!!!!
the values ​​before and after are almost identical. for example on the front right the value has changed from 0 degrees 59 minutes to 1 degree - that is plus 1 minute.

Post #713722 10th Mar 2025 7:01pm
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MarianaWestminster



Member Since: 14 Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 718

United Kingdom 

Do you think this could be the cause of my heavy steering then RRfranz? Way too much toe in?

I've ordered new track rods and ends so as soon as these are fitted I'll be able to take it back and get them to do the alignment.

I'll ask for +0°05' toe as you suggest. (This figure agrees with the specs stated in the WSM)

Post #713725 10th Mar 2025 7:34pm
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Pawl



Member Since: 07 Nov 2017
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 702

England 2007 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Cairns Blue

Lewis,
I've just seen the alignment figures you've got !

From my experience on rally cars toe-in can cause slightly heavier steering, but usually means a bit more lock has to be applied than expected because the car understeers more.
The converse - ie toe-out - can be used to make the steering more nervous - as when you start applying lock, the inner wheel is already pointing into the turn & the outer doesn't need to turn much for the car to turn further & therefore appears a bit lighter.
Good luck. You may be getting nearer !
Paul

PS The rear toe isn't going to help the steering either - as the values would indicate it's trying to constantly steer from the rear - albeit not by a huge amount compared to the error at the front. To compensate, you'll be steering the opposite way slightly.
Adjusting the rear could also be a challenge due to seized rear toe links - unless you've changed them in the last few years

PPS Did they have the suspension set in tight tolerance mode while checking alignment ?
If they didn't manage to adjust anything Before & After should be almost identical - but the front left has changed from negative to positive camber - which I think can only happen if the suspension has lifted on that side or the equipment has moved relative to the wheel
(As aside I stopped using Kwik Fit for alignment checks when they suggested my solid rear axled Discovery 2 had negative camber which they'd "corrected" on a second check - which was physically impossible & obviously they not mounted the equipment properly at least on the first check) Paul,
2001 Discovery 2 TD5, 211,000 miles & climbing
2006 FFRR TDV8 Vogue 151,000 miles & now sold
Member of Midland (Land) Rover Owners Club, www.mroc.co.uk

Post #713741 10th Mar 2025 10:08pm
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