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SteveMFr
Site Sponsor

Member Since: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Strasbourg, France
Posts: 1641

Phil, I've sent you a PM
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

20th Nov 2012 10:19pm

Bellini

Member Since: 11 Jan 2012
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2261

2007 Range Rover Supercharged 4.2 SC V8 Zermatt Silver

Excellent thread, chaps!!

ZF 6-speed retrofitted into an '02, eh? I imagine if the units are the same size, then surely it's just a matter of reprogramming to get it working?

Please keep us updated. Si. <This is my name.

I eat rat poison.

A man ain't truly been insulted until he stands buck naked in front of a woman and she didn't even notice. Or care.

21st Nov 2012 6:24am

woodchopper23

Member Since: 20 Jan 2012
Location: cumbria
Posts: 259

2010 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Ipanema Sand

Great post Phil. You really are an asset to this forum. MY2010 TDV8 Vogue Ipanema Sand
2002 V8 Vogue Oslo Blue - Gone.

24th Nov 2012 8:58am

RRPhil

Member Since: 22 Aug 2011
Location: Blackburn, Lancashire
Posts: 969

Okay, so making a start with pulling apart the first of the various sub-assemblies.....

First the A & E clutch assembly, which includes the front simple epicyclic

Click image to enlarge

This assembly comes apart by simply releasing the snap ring which holds the B-clutch hub to the A-clutch drum

Click image to enlarge

The various components which make up the assembly can be seen below. On the right is the E-clutch hub which drives the carrier of the rear Ravigneaux epicyclic – ZF call this the intermediate shaft. The drum with the holes in it is the A-clutch hub which, through the hollow shaft, drives the rear sun gear of the Ravigneaux unit.

Click image to enlarge

So here is the A-clutch assembly with the front simple epicyclic attached

Click image to enlarge

The clutch pack slides out after removing the snap ring and this plastic component is an oil catcher that channels fluid down the centre of the planet pins to lubricate the planet gear bearings

Click image to enlarge

It took me a little while to fathom out how to detach the epicyclic carrier and sun gear from the A-clutch. Although you probably can’t make it out in the photo there’s a clip which holds the carrier in place and it is removed by levering it out of its groove using a small screwdriver through the gaps down the side of two of the planet gears

Click image to enlarge

The clip can be seen more clearly below which shows the epicyclic once removed

Click image to enlarge

and this is how the A-clutch assembly now looks

Click image to enlarge

The clutch piston return spring then has to be compressed in order to remove the retaining circlip and I was pleasantly surprised to find that one of the tools I’d had made up for stripping down the 5HP24 clutches fitted this one fine

Click image to enlarge

So the oil dam plate can be removed together with the circlip

Click image to enlarge

revealing the clutch piston return spring

Click image to enlarge

To remove the piston it’s easiest to place the A-clutch drum back on to the oil pump assembly and then apply air pressure into the feed hole

Click image to enlarge

The piston then pops out and these are all the components that make up the A-clutch and front epicyclic assembly

Click image to enlarge

Moving now onto the E-clutch assembly. The E-clutch assembly is part of the ‘input shaft’ of the transmission which is driven directly by the torque converter turbine

Click image to enlarge

The photo shows that the annulus gear of the front simple epicyclic is EB welded to the E-clutch drum and so is permanently driven by the transmission input shaft

Click image to enlarge

Once the clutch pack had been lifted out of the drum, I was again pleasantly surprised to find that one of my 5HP24 clutch spring compression tools fitted the E-clutch spring retainer perfectly, allowing me to remove the circlip without difficulty

Click image to enlarge

and then the spring and piston could be removed

Click image to enlarge

Phil

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

25th Nov 2012 12:45am

TugRR

Member Since: 11 Jan 2011
Location: Bakewell
Posts: 1199

. . . . Well, Phil, I have little idea of what you are doing in all of this, but I'm thoroughly enjoying reading it !

Keep up the good work -

Where do you go after one of these . . . ?

25th Nov 2012 10:54am

daz62

Member Since: 27 Dec 2011
Location: Reading
Posts: 201

2003 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Oslo Blue

fascinating stuff Phil, a true asset to the forum. 03 4.4 V8 petrol / lpg. 1st of many hopefully. I love my Rangie

25th Nov 2012 1:09pm

mzplcg

Member Since: 26 May 2010
Location: Warwickshire. England. The Commonwealth.
Posts: 4029

2014 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Corris Grey

Top reading material indeed.

25th Nov 2012 1:11pm

g4mudman

Member Since: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Bedford
Posts: 12

2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Santorini Black

Great work RRPhil.........would be good to know if it would be possible to fit a ZF6 speed in too a TD6 Range Rover, a little electronic trickery would be needed but the fitting should be fairly straight forward......bellhousing, mountings and props...simples

27th Nov 2012 1:15pm

piecost76

Member Since: 19 Jul 2010
Location: Nr Sevenoaks, Kent
Posts: 296

Like a good few people on here, I also do not have a clue what is going on & am staggered by the number of gears, rings etc & am clueless how it would all go back together!

Well done Phil & please keep up the excellent work, I think everyone would want to buy a rebuilt gearbox from you Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

15 MY 110 XS USW

54 FFRR Vogue TD6 Touchscreen - Gone!
56 FFRR TDV8 VSE - Gone!

27th Nov 2012 2:37pm

RRPhil

Member Since: 22 Aug 2011
Location: Blackburn, Lancashire
Posts: 969

g4mudman wrote:
...would be good to know if it would be possible to fit a ZF6 speed in too a TD6 Range Rover....

Nice idea. I would imagine that the first person that successfully transplants the 6HP26 into a TD6, and gets it running properly, will clean up - what a popular conversion that would be!

The 6HP26 is around 30mm shorter than the 5L40-E in the L322 installation :

Click image to enlarge

so potentially there’s enough space for an adaptor plate between the bellhousing and the RFOB. The 5L40-E bellhousing (shown at the top in the photo below) is quite a bit smaller than the 6HP26 :

Click image to enlarge

Obviously there would be starter motor, TC nose support and flex-plate issues that would have to be dealt with.

As the interface for the transfer box would be different at the back :

Click image to enlarge

it would make sense to carry over the DD295 transfer case provided that the propshafts could be made to fit and the positioning of the front joint isn’t too dissimilar.

With the 4.10 final drive in the TD6, maximum overdrive ratio would be around 31mph/1000rpm in 6th gear. Because 1st gear ratio in the 6HP26 is 4.17 compared with 3.42 in the 5L40-E, and because the torque converter K-factor and stall torque ratio will have been matched against the 640Nm TDV8 engine output (compared with only 390Nm for the BMW TD6) there would be some work to do matching the torque converter I think.

Anyway, the mechanical issues would pale into insignificance compared with the electronic/control ones – over to you Steve!

Phil

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

27th Nov 2012 10:06pm

Rob2529

Member Since: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Wirral, uk
Posts: 1470

Don't know what all the fuss is about! [img]http://www.fuelly.com/driver/rob2529/range-rover[img/]
04, 4.4V8, Vogue Oslo Blue with LPG.
"You can sleep in your car, BUT you can't race your house!!!!"

If something can't be fixed with a hammer....... You have yourself an electrical fault!

27th Nov 2012 11:11pm

g4mudman

Member Since: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Bedford
Posts: 12

Hi Phil thanks for the detailed reply, how about using the auto box and torque converter from a D3 disco? not as powerful as the TDV8 but still a few little issues to overcome

Alan

28th Nov 2012 12:00am

fisha

Member Since: 25 Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1371

2015 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Aruba

Very interesting breakdown of the box. You can see how it is a bit simpler than what went before.

Regarding the electrical issues, doesn't the box simply need told the correct values over a can-bus connection and could that not be done by a custom interface device ? 3 V8 or else ...

28th Nov 2012 10:05am

kingpleb

Member Since: 07 Jun 2011
Location: Maybe here. Maybe there, I get everywhere!
Posts: 8455

I think you'd need the Gbox, Transfer box, Front Diff, Rear Diff, and all the shafts unless the splines are the same. FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

28th Nov 2012 12:17pm

Laurie915

Member Since: 11 Sep 2011
Location: Canberra
Posts: 72

2010 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Buckingham Blue

Phil
From what I have read looking at the ZF 6HP24 variants. I found that BMW fitted this gearbox to the TD6 (M57) in the 730d sold in Europe between 2002-2005. Also it was used again behind the M57 in the E63/64 6 series coupes from 2003-2007
It was not made available to other BMW vehicles because they were marketed as the prestige vehicles in the BMW lineup.
Surely these boxes were communicating on the old canbus system ? as BMW had big electronic issues in this period with it's IDrive system !

Is it worth more investigation ?
Laurie

6th Dec 2012 10:59am

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