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harlie



Member Since: 07 Dec 2012
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 4

Australia 

Hi All
Long time reader here in Aus, thought I’d join in.

Big thanks to Phill, I’ve read many informative write ups of yours now, hats off and thank you for your time and effort.

Several of us downunder (hi Laurie) have been talking of this for a while now, on AULRO and private chats, and it’s good to see another conversation started, I suppose it takes someone like Phill to attack the mechanical aspect in detail.

With my limited Auto Trans knowledge I have a Q for Phill (and others). The TDV6 D3 was 440nm, 3.0 TDV6 D4 600nm with higher rpm than the TDv8, my tuned TD6 is approximately 500-510nm. Does this bring the possibility of using a D3/4 box & TC in to equation given the engine outputs would be closer?

fisha wrote:

......
Regarding the electrical issues, doesn't the box simply need told the correct values over a can-bus connection and could that not be done by a custom interface device ? 3

Back closer to my comfort zone, zeros and ones… Yes a custom interface would work, and would be needed; the comms is completely different for the Trans ECU in the L322 TD6 when compared to any 6 speed LR. But cost? Custom shift/lock maps (cost? – maybe TDV6 would work). Steve’s suggestion of a translation module would work (no change to the Car Configuration File as it would emulate the current ECU) provided it gave zero delay to packets, or there would be timing issues with functions like the Torque Reduction Request (for example). The Trans ECU from a 2002 730d would communicate but does not contain any logic for low range operation (for example). I also think the 6 speed ECU is expecting a couple of extra messages that the system in the TD6 does not provide – not that this is a stopper.

However, the two issues that really concern me are these.
1. Since there is now a foreign Trans ECU in the car, hardly any (if any) diagnostic system will be able to read/clear faults. Most systems look for particular ECUs based on vehicle model.
2. We have no idea what all the other systems will do when the “Current Gear = 6” message is broadcast (or couple others). I am especially concerned about ABS/Traction control – what happens if these ECUs throw an unhandled exception and either enter non responsive state, or do something unexpected, and this may only happen with a certain combination of several other values, so would need a lot of testing, and could vary vastly between 2002 and 2005, as several ECUs received updates.

As it has been said before, anything is possible, and I’m convinced it will work, if you throw enough money at it – real Q is whether it is worth it (personally I don’t believe so). Interested in Steve’s input – I don’t work on car systems, just my thoughts – BTW, IID going great here Steve!

Great topic, and sorry for taking over, pls keep it up Phill.

Post #155956 7th Dec 2012 11:09am
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The Brains Trust



Member Since: 23 Sep 2011
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 155

Australia 2003 Range Rover HSE Td6 Adriatic Blue

Hi Harlie, good to see you here. Hopefully with everyone's thoughts, input and experience, someone will get this to work.

Cheers - Gav.

Post #156235 9th Dec 2012 9:55am
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Laurie915



Member Since: 11 Sep 2011
Location: Canberra
Posts: 72

Australia 2010 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Buckingham Blue

Good to see you here also Harlie !

Or better still why not get a box from a later model M57 equipped BMW ? This should sort out the flexplate and stater motor issues. I won't pretend to know the electronics like Harlie or SteveMFr , but could we get a CAN translation module setup from one of these autos, to use in the integration of the box into the Rangie ? Could this module be used on a 2006 Vogue Td6 update model ?
As there would be no need for an adaptor plate, this would leave the 30mm that Phil mentioned at the back of the box. If possible why not an adaptor plate to mount the DD295 transfer case in it’s original position ? This would require a custom output shaft, JPAT http://www.jpat.co.uk/5L40E%20Shafts.pdf
already do a custom HD shaft for the 5L40E, why not one for the 6HP26, they already have shaft diameter, splines loaded on their CNC machines, the rear annulus gear will have to be setup though. I’m sure they would sell more of these if it becomes a viable option !
If I was to go down this road, I would do a heavy duty rebuild of the auto with a custom billet torque converter, I still believe after much research that the T/C is the weak-link in this setup.
Jeremy Fearn’s big HP conversion is starting to look good again !!!
Again thanks to Phil for his expertise and the photos of the 5L40E and the 6HP26 compared to each other that made this reply possible.
Just my thoughts
Laurie

Post #156410 10th Dec 2012 12:30am
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lex99



Member Since: 26 Sep 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 3

fantastic thread!

Post #212580 26th Sep 2013 10:28pm
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wealy



Member Since: 29 Jul 2013
Location: Kings Bromley
Posts: 1020

United Kingdom 2014 Range Rover Vogue SDV8 Luxor

Here here! Very Happy

Post #212744 27th Sep 2013 4:49pm
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ebajema



Member Since: 24 Mar 2011
Location: New Plymouth
Posts: 4782

New Zealand 2010 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Galway Green

Sorry Steve for the next bit : The Faultmate allows to search per ECU, however since you buy a license per VIN and model or a multiple VIN license per model, it would be costly to get enough licenses to get all the modules working. But I expect, once you have done that you could theoretically see all the ECUs, provided there are no different comms protocols running or the "translation module" screws that up. However that wouldn't make sense as if the comms protocols don't work the whole won't work.

Now Steve of course knows his kit better so he can maybe comment on the IID being able to get around communicating with the various ECUs even if they were originally from another car.

Now the way I understand it, the transmission, at least the ZF 6HP26 also has a ECU in the gearbox, in addition to the one under the hood/bonnet (in the big plastic box with the engine management ECU). Not sure if that provides any additional issues with interfacing and control.

Now I'm just a mechanical engineer and not a bits and bytes person so my knowledge in this area is far more limited then Harlie and Steve.

I do know that the JLR and ZF engineers spend many many hours tuning the software of the ECUs to get the best performance and I wonder if combining components that were not designed to work together will actually result in something desirable for us as drivers.

I do understand the challenge and fun in getting something that wasn't done before and make it work and from that perspective I hope you guys get the FrankenGear to work Smile MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Post #212754 27th Sep 2013 6:01pm
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