This amused me.


Mobil ATF which jaguar put a jaguar sticker and part number on the side.
and no doubt charged a markup





http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-Liter-Original...SwPe1UBhDu


.

doclees wrote:

So as i do more research it gets more convoluted. I go to Exxon/mobil to find info. They do not list 71141. Not a US product. Seems to me if ZF only wanted Mobil brand 71141 in there transmissions that is what you would find in the dealerships. Then again they said it was a sealed for life transmission.
Further sources list Fuchs of Germany as the manufacturer of esso and Mobil brand 71141. I'm still trying to find out who makes it for Febi and if it is licensed or if a license is even still needed.
One should keep in mind that 71141 is a 20+ year old semi synthetic product. I can't imagine there hasn't been an improved version by now.
Elsewhere one source said the red color in the fluid is nothing more than color dye.

Thanks RRphil. This is interesting about the Pentosin. I stayed away from it in the past because somewhere on one of its info sheets it implied it was a substitute for LT 71141. Perhaps it's a lost in translation thing. This sheet pretty much says the two are the same product. I will try another approach with liqui-moly and Febi and ask how they differ from Pentosin. I would love to have a real clear understanding of the products so I can decide if one is truly worth 50% more or just maybe needs a bit more frequent change.

Here’s the Technical cover sheet for the Range Rover ‘032’ 5HP24 transmission from ZF’s Service Data Management software showing Pentosin ATF 1 as the correct fluid.

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

As I've said in my other post I've been using the Febi brand. Transmission has just gotten better. I have a 2000 mile round trip starting tomorrow. When I get back I will change the filter for a second time in 17k miles and the pan fluid 4 times in 17k miles. It is starting to get clean.

Pentosin I can get for about $10.60 delivered. Only a tad more than the Febi brand. That would make the need for Febi a non issue. I'd still like to know the difference if any so I will ask the companies.

On a side note I feel sorry for you price of petrol.

The life of the oil at given operating temperature is what we need to be concerned about.........this is where the ZF approvals come into the equation.
As I have said before our engines run ridiculously hot (this is why I have changed my thermostat) the ZF approvals reflect this fact the "A","B", "C" rated fluids are "Long Life" and longer as they get to the "C" rating from what I can deduce.

Our FFs come from the factory with a fluid life of 8 years max........but if you are towing or racing, highway driving you can expect to cut fluid life in half or less.
Likewise if you have seen any of the limp home "trans fail safe mode" warnings, boiled your engine etc I would dump the trans fluid.
As good as these fluids are they are at the top end of their operating range.........all day every day.

I would be confident enough to say that I could run my trans on Dexron III so long as I changed my fluid every 2000km
(I WOULDNT RECOMMEND IT) simple fact is fluids have a finite life at high temperature.
If you are using LIFE GUARD 5 you are getting guaranteed OEM "as originally fitted" product, from what I can see.

Long and short of it all is reduce heat, decrease service interval. Oxidised fluid is the enemy here.

Best way to assess things is take an oil sample and send it in for analysis.

From the net;

Automatic Transmission Fluid Oxidation
Automatic Transmission fluid will provide 100,000 miles of service before oxidation occurs under
normal operating temperatures of approximately 170 degrees. Above normal operating temperatures
the oxidation rate doubles (life of fluid is cut in half) with each 20 degree increase in temperature.
The approximate life expectancy at various temperature is as follows:
This information clearly shows why transmission oil coolers and shorter maintenance
intervals are strongly recommended for severe usage vehicles.

175F 100,000 miles
195F 50,000 miles
212F 25,000 miles Full fat is operating here minimum at 109c coolant temp (228F)
235F 12,500 miles
255F 6,250 miles
275F 3,125 miles
295F 1,562 miles
315F 781 miles
335F 390 miles
355F 195 miles
375F 98 miles
390F 49 miles
415F Less than 30 minutes

RRPhil wrote:

doclees wrote:

So as i do more research it gets more convoluted. I go to Exxon/mobil to find info. They do not list 71141. Not a US product. Seems to me if ZF only wanted Mobil brand 71141 in there transmissions that is what you would find in the dealerships. Then again they said it was a sealed for life transmission.
Further sources list Fuchs of Germany as the manufacturer of esso and Mobil brand 71141. I'm still trying to find out who makes it for Febi and if it is licensed or if a license is even still needed.
One should keep in mind that 71141 is a 20+ year old semi synthetic product. I can't imagine there hasn't been an improved version by now.
Elsewhere one source said the red color in the fluid is nothing more than color dye.

http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/post368837.html#368837

Phil

doclees wrote:

When I get back I will change the filter for a second time in 17k miles and the pan fluid 4 times in 17k miles. It is starting to get clean.

Andy K wrote:

All you do is disconnect a cooler pipe at the front.
Put pipes into a large container e.g 5l or 20l


Run the engine for about 30 seconds (have an assistant tell you when the oil stops) and all the oil is pumped out the TC.
Drain remaining oil from the sump.

There is controversy by some that if the tranny is very dirty a complete flush can dislodge that crud and cause it to plug ports, pumps and solenoids. Seems like a plausible idea. If true this could be the cause of some trannys going bad shortly after the first overdue fluid change. If this is true it would also mean that the fluid and filter have reached the maximum amount of suspended particles leaving the rest of the crud stuck to walls. Just changing the filter and pan fluid would leave half the particulate saturated fluid allowing for a more gradual release of any clumps into suspension and hopefully collected by the new filter. Just a theory.

My filter has only been changed once at 120k miles. The PO would not change the fluid because he had an X5 with the 5HP24 and the transmission died a hundred miles after the flush.

I guess it depends on the system layout.

e.g Is it pump > cooler > valves ? In which case the valves shouldn't get blocked.


I guess at some point you would like a full fluid change? when you have gently taken out some of the dirt.

personally I would cycle through 3-4 oil and filter changes over a few months, this as said will let any more particles stick in the new filter. After that the original oil should be so dilute as to not be a real problem.

apparently you swap around 50% of the oil with a tranny drain and refill, so:

1 change - 50% old oil left
2 changes - 25% old oil left
3 changes - 12% old oil left
4 changes - 6% old oil left
5 changes - 3% and so on.

would rather do that than a power flush.  There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
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Andy K wrote:

I guess it depends on the system layout.

e.g Is it pump > cooler > valves ? In which case the valves shouldn't get blocked.


I guess at some point you would like a full fluid change? when you have gently taken out some of the dirt.

Thanks for your e-mail.

Top Tec ATF 1200 is precisely the right ATF for your Range Rover.

To choose the right ATF is quite simple: Have a look in the manual, search the required specification for the ATF (in your case it is LT 71141) and then pick an ATF which meets this specification. Or you may check our online oil guide at http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/web.nsf...guide.html

In a nutshell: Top Tec ATF 1200 is the right ATF and whoever says something different is totally wrong and obviously lacks technical understanding. Any other ATF which meets the necessary spec LT 71141 is ok, too. Technically the brand does not matter as long as the fluids really meets the specs printed on the label. As we produce everything exclusively in Germany (unlike our competitors) and do not have a network of blending facilities all over the globe, we can ensure a constantly very high quality of the fluid. And we guarantee this quality and the specs without limitation. Should there be any hassle or even damage caused by our ATF, we compensate this, of course. But I do not know of a single case where this has been necessary.

Freundliche Grüße / Best regards

i. A. Peter Szarafinski
Leiter Öffentlichkeitsarbeit Ausland
Head of Media Relations International

Marketing

Phone: +49 731 1420-189
Mobil: +49 151 16207701
Fax: +49 731 1420-82
Peter.Szarafinski@liqui-moly.de

LIQUI MOLY GmbH
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4 | 89081 Ulm | GERMANY

www.liqui-moly.de

Still mentions nothing about any additives...

They won't fix your box if their fluid breaks it, they'll just tell you no one else has had problems so it can't be our oil...

Still can't see the point of trying to save a few % of the cost of a gearbox on oil that "maybe" ok....  Pete
I now have permission from the boss to use Y.O.L.O. Enjoy life
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I think his reply covers it here
"Should there be any hassle or even damage caused by our ATF, we compensate this, of course. But I do not know of a single case where this has been necessary."

The fluid designation/specification LT 71141 covers the standard for the fluid, there is nothing special about the trans in a FF that requires special modifiers outside of what is in the LT 71141 blend.

There is a good table with all the compatible fluids that meet these specs (LT 71141) within;

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthre...nfo-Thread