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Weejock



Member Since: 30 Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 417

2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Epsom Green

Damn!

Googling the Sensor to Ground code comes up with this post:
http://www.roverreset.com/index.php?topic=26.0

So sounds like the Transfer Box motor or potentiometer issues. Another post here:
http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic13435....ansfer+box

Anyway it sounds like a classic transfer box motor issue now and might explain the voltage problem if the motor or potentiometer is shorting out.

RRPhils great post on the potentiometer:
http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15193....ansfer+box

Testing the motor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJqd3oTsh1...B14BE6984C

It's pretty easy to remove the motor and bench test it with a 12V supply following the video above (there is a video on removing it too).
Given the mileage of yours the motor itself could be at fault (brushes worn and/or magnets detached) and it's possible to be rebuilt by a good Alternator/motor specialist. If the potentiometer is worn out or faulty (it feedbacks the motors position) then unfortunately at this moment in time it's a whole replacement transfer box motor needed which aren't cheap. You might find one 2nd hand for about £250.

Anyway start by testing the transfer box motor.

Post #365251 4th Jan 2016 3:28pm
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Bofa Bill



Member Since: 04 Apr 2013
Location: Poole + Rugeley
Posts: 174

Scotland 2003 Range Rover SE Td6 Epsom Green

Thank ye again Jock
Just haid a thot
Is it possible just to disconect the plug or a fuse disabeling the stepper high/low and use the car? Made in Scotland frae 'Girders'

Post #365288 4th Jan 2016 8:37pm
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Haylands



Member Since: 04 Mar 2014
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 8190

England 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

No, it's never that easy, there has to be feedback from the transfer box to confirm it's in high box or it chucks faults up.... Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Post #365322 4th Jan 2016 11:35pm
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Weejock



Member Since: 30 Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 417

2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Epsom Green

As Haylands says it's unfortunately not that easy but if it finds a problem it will try to engage whatever range it was last set to so you can 'drive to a dealership'. If it fails in High Range then it's probably still useable but in Low Range then you're obviously really limited in driveability. Even if it fails in High Range there is no telling what it might do on the next start up as it checks what it was last set to and cycles the motor if it sees anything different...if it messes up who knows where it might end up including neutral and then leave you stranded so I wouldn't be driving it.

Having said remove the Transfer Box motor it might be better to check the connections to the Transfer Box ECU and Motor first.
The ECU is in the engine bay behind the battery.
http://workshop-manuals.com/landrover/l322...r_box_ecu/

After that I would just whip the transfer box motor off as it's fairly easy to do (should be removed in High Range, just make sure it goes back on in exactly the same motor position it came off) and bench check the operation as per the PowerfulUK youtube video.
As he explains in the video sometimes just cycling the motor on the bench can improve the situation, the potentiometer carbon tracks and wiper are a known issue and cycling the motor helps to prevent the contacts corroding/sticking in one spot.
It's why it's a good idea to change into Low Range every so often (if you are not using it normally) to keep everything freed up.

Obviously there is no guarantee that is the issue especially as the Transfer Box uses the CANbus for communication but it's what I would be checking given the info.

Post #365328 5th Jan 2016 12:33am
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Ian c2



Member Since: 19 May 2015
Location: Socal
Posts: 217

United States 2007 Range Rover Supercharged 4.2 SC V8 Stornoway Grey

I'm sorry I don't have time to look at mine or do any research for you as I'm working on my El Niño preparations .
But a simple position feedback system can always be manipulated to send the the signal you want back to the control .
If it's reading resistance , you can simply disconnect wiring from the instrument and add whatever ohms you want the control to see .
Likewise with volts you can make the control see whatever you want the instrument to send .
Even if it is a "self-testing" variable it can be done .
Not sure it's worth it , but it can easily be done whilst you source new parts or take it to get fixed etc.

Post #365330 5th Jan 2016 12:57am
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Haylands



Member Since: 04 Mar 2014
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 8190

England 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

How easy is it to determine what signal it want's, I believe it's a can bus signal so will be a resistance of some kind...

Or does it want feedback to say the motor works and then feedback to say it's position... ??

Is there any way of telling what it wants as Rave tells you how it works, not what it does to work....!!! Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Post #365333 5th Jan 2016 2:05am
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Ian c2



Member Since: 19 May 2015
Location: Socal
Posts: 217

United States 2007 Range Rover Supercharged 4.2 SC V8 Stornoway Grey

If it's taking a reading from a pot , you can hook up a meter and turn the pot to see the range .

If it's a self-test sequence like the "headlight dance" it will be more involved obviously .
Wether these see the whole movement from min-to-max , or just a min signal then max signal I don't know .
But if a motor can do it , a human can .

Is it worth it ?
Probably not .
But it might be as simple as XOhms is low , and Yohms is high . So add a resister to send Yohms to stay in high .....

Or in my case at work , 4mA is low 20mA is high Smile

Post #365335 5th Jan 2016 2:40am
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Weejock



Member Since: 30 Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 417

2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Epsom Green

It's been looked into before a few years ago, RRPhil again has done the testing on the potentiometer and someone was going to get the potentiometer manufacturered as it couldn't be found off the shelf but it died a death.
http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/6-range-r...gypsy.html

I don't think it's as simple as just sticking in a single resistor as RAVE mentions a position check on ignition on which drives the motor to it's end stop unless that is a one off for calibration. I know I wouldn't design a system that would leave a brushed motor sitting there doing nothing for possibly months or years but then I wouldn't use a carbon track potentionmeter to monitor it! Yes it can always be simulated by other means (actually I built a device that does virtually the same thing for a college project many years ago) but the best solution is to just replace the potentiometer...if indeed that is the problem in this case.

There's a similar issue with the steering column solenoid lock which also fails and the only official way to correct it is to replace the whole column...very expensive for a part that is worth about £10 but is also no longer manufactured.

Post #365344 5th Jan 2016 6:24am
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Bofa Bill



Member Since: 04 Apr 2013
Location: Poole + Rugeley
Posts: 174

Scotland 2003 Range Rover SE Td6 Epsom Green

Good golly
Thank ye for the replies but all this is way above me
I cant remember if fuse 37 shoukd be in or oot noo. Embarassed
Me mechanic is coming over again today so out comes the motor thingy to fire up and see what it does
I know it works as can be heard when resetting the codes
Faults show up when drive engaged

Thers one on ebay at the mo so if things dont improve this morn I will order it and try that

I also have the eci thingy to check and unplug, plug behind the battery

Keep all the check things coming

Thanks again

Fed up BOFA Big Cry Made in Scotland frae 'Girders'

Post #365346 5th Jan 2016 7:38am
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Bofa Bill



Member Since: 04 Apr 2013
Location: Poole + Rugeley
Posts: 174

Scotland 2003 Range Rover SE Td6 Epsom Green

Weil. This kornings findings

Switched on and all was spot on
No bings bangs or flames

Went on a two mile up and doon the gears perfect

Drove into drive and bing, 'trans failsafe mode' flashed up
Indicators flashing fast both sides
Switched off/on and all clear

Tried low/high and all worked ok

Trans fail keeps flashing up

Oh, and a new one. Keeps binging up 'high range' every second untill I switch off
Switch back on and all ok

What next? Made in Scotland frae 'Girders'

Post #365356 5th Jan 2016 9:41am
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Bofa Bill



Member Since: 04 Apr 2013
Location: Poole + Rugeley
Posts: 174

Scotland 2003 Range Rover SE Td6 Epsom Green

My mechanic is coming over today so i will get him to remove the trans box motor and give that a whiz to clean the brushes as detailed in youtube
Ive had car ticking iver on drive for over an hour noo and all good so far
Altho, still flashes up various bulb failures when switch off

I got a second hand LCM and pluged it in and engine started but no lights or indicators
I know one should get it married up to my car at L/R ££££££'s.

What I have just done is to 'reset' the gearbox. Dunno if that will change owt

Thanks again as being an old skool all this is rather behond me

Bill Made in Scotland frae 'Girders'

Post #365361 5th Jan 2016 11:10am
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Bofa Bill



Member Since: 04 Apr 2013
Location: Poole + Rugeley
Posts: 174

Scotland 2003 Range Rover SE Td6 Epsom Green

Aw weil
Very latest
Went oot to just move it undercover ready for mechanic
Into 'D' and clunk, a whizzing like teeth not engaging then nowt
No drive in any gear
When in 'P' it whizzez like gears not engageing and when switch engine off
It clunks and engages 'P'
No other drive at all.
Mmmmm can things get any worse? Made in Scotland frae 'Girders'

Post #365364 5th Jan 2016 11:31am
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Weejock



Member Since: 30 Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 417

2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Epsom Green

Unfortunately resetting the adaptions on the Gearbox was probably not a good idea and is why it's doing what it is now (no drive etc.).
The gearbox adapts to the wear and tear over the years by adjustments to it's actuations it stores in the ECU. When you reset it all those adaptions are gone and it goes to default settings as if it were a new box. It can probably learn again but only if you can get it to drive!
The alternative is the transfer box motor has finally given up and is not engaging but it should still be in the last position it was left in when switched off, guess it's a case of working where the noise is coming from, gearbox or transfer box, although it's not something you want to listen to for long!

Big Cry

Post #365371 5th Jan 2016 12:00pm
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Bofa Bill



Member Since: 04 Apr 2013
Location: Poole + Rugeley
Posts: 174

Scotland 2003 Range Rover SE Td6 Epsom Green

Ah reet
Ok, i think the last check is as ye say the motor so will get that doing
After that?
Dunno noo.

Is it too early for a whisky? Made in Scotland frae 'Girders'

Post #365373 5th Jan 2016 12:07pm
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Bofa Bill



Member Since: 04 Apr 2013
Location: Poole + Rugeley
Posts: 174

Scotland 2003 Range Rover SE Td6 Epsom Green

Crunching noise is from gearbox.
Took motor off and checked it as per youtube and all good
Wound the spindle back and forth
Free and could be moved by hand
Which we thought strange.
No resistance at all
So, built it all back up and I noo haiv drive, forward and reverse.
Still flashing failsafe mode tho
AND, when I put it into 'P' and back out thers a large clunk. Like wind up.
Tension on the box.
We have deducted that the box has decided to die.

Canny think of anything else to try

Time for a new car noo Big Cry

Thank you to everyone who contributed and especially to WeeJock for the PM's.

Censored Made in Scotland frae 'Girders'

Post #365417 5th Jan 2016 3:40pm
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