Hi all, I was having a discussion with my neighbour about the M57 thats in my FFRR and his 530 Touring, and we got on to the subject of 'MORE POWER!!!!!!!!'. And it got me to thinking if anyone has tried to fit the BiTurbo, or TriTurbo engines from a later X5 / X6? From what I can make out the BiTurbo produces 282 hp / 430 lb.ft and the TriTurbo produces 376 hp / 550 lb.ft!
If you could make the TriTurbo N57S engine fit that would be more than double the power , plus it would get the car running on the ZF box instead of the GM, win win all round
Would this be a viable idea to pursue, or is it a non starter for 10? Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

It sounds like a great mod to me. My only concern is how the ECU's that come with the triturbo and ZF, tie into the rest of the car. Not just connectors (hopefully they remained the same but you may check on X5 forums if it has been done there) but also software wise. Does everything still talk to each other.

That is what I think is a bit sad about modern ECU riddled networked cars, flicking another engine/gearbox in, has become not just the easy part (mechanical and electrical) but now also needs a lot of bit and byte work done. And that sort of stuff is quite specialized. Where are the Android ECUs when you need them  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Or for probably a lot less money and certainly a lot less hastle you could just sell it and get the TDV8?

Could you just put the twin turbo's on the td6 and get the ecu remapped to accept them ?

And blow up the gearbox driving it out of the shop  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

It has a different block with a different capacity. The later ones also switched to an aluminium block.

I agree that the ECU's would be the main headache to the mod, not being up to date with the X5 I'm not too sure how much they have evolved from 2005 / 6 when the TD6 was dropped in favour of the TDV8. Knowing my luck its a straight nut and bolt job for the touch screen nav cars and a complete brainache for those of us with the non touch nav
As for swopping the car for the TDV8, I think I'd rather stick with my under powered tractor, sound in the knowledge that I would be able to exceed 80K without having to replace the turbos, EGR's and the list goes on. The TDV8 is built by a company who specialise in big capacity petrol engines, where economy is not the main concern, horses are! Also I'm not too aware of any other cars that have the engine in them so parts seem to be at a premium too, I remember reading 2k for a turbo, and it has 2, OUCH!!
The TD6 appears in most of the BMW range (funny that!), Land Rovers, Rovers, Vauxhalls, Opels and probably a load more that your going to tell me about. But my point is its mass produced, and therefore by that very nature, cheaper and easier to get parts for. Also it would appear tobe more refined and developed than the V8.
Example TDV8 3.6 produces 268 @ 4000 and 472 lb.ft @ 2000 and the later 4.4 produces 309 hp @ 4000 and 516 lb.ft @ 1500 - 3000, impressive but at what cost to reliability, due the the very new nature of the engine.
The BMW N57S produces 367hp @ 4000, and 550 lb.ft @ 2000 - 3000, thats nearly 100 hp more than the TDV8 3.6 and 58 hp more than the 4.4, and its almost the same for the torque, which is what makes you accelerate. So the conclusion that can be drawn from this is DO NOT RACE AN X5 OFF THE LIGHTS IF ITS LATER THAN A 2012, you'll look very silly
If the manifolds and turbos could be bolted on to the existing M57 engine in the FFRR and either change the ecu for the X5's or reprogramme the L/R one, that would be the easiest route of all. But then you have the gearbox to deal with, that would have tobe a ZF 6 speed swop. Which from what I understand, from my gearbox re-builder, are just as, if slightly more, unreliable than the GM 5 speed. Sorry to burst your bubbles guys, I got 102K out of my GM, before my nerve went and I had it rebuilt. At the time it was commented that mine was a very high mileage box, the norm being around 80K. But he went on to say that he'd had SC's with gearbox failure with as little as 45k on the clock.
Sealed for life means until it fails, and the main cause of failure is the slipping clutch in the torque converter, which is only done to achieve the economy figures set out by government. nanny state, they should stick to what they are good at, sex scandals and leave the car building to the petrolheads of this world  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

In theory the early twin turbo ones use the same block and head so it would be a case of taking the exhaust manifold and inlet manifold and pipe work from one and fitting it.

You may find that the inlet setup has the vanes in them that are well known for blowing apart so get them out while its there.

Also one thing the TD6 is on the limit with is its Intercooler. This would need to be increased in size as the FF is heavier than the BMW vehicles it generates higher charge temps in normal running due to more boost being used more of the time.

If you did this mod you WOULD in no doubt need to get the valve block out of the gearbox and replace it with teh uprated/better designed sonnax unit. Also the torque convertor can be uprated as well so worth doing while its out.
Then get the gearbox ecu remapped by that company in germany, maybe asking for a slightly earlier lockup than they normally do as they torque the new mods would kick out would deffinately need the box locking up the clutches and TC earlier to stop them getting shredded.

Then its time for ECU mapping... That should be fun but at least with it being doing you could knock the guts out of the cat box at the front of the exhaust and increase airflow out as the twin turbos will need it.

The upside of this is that even though there will be more heat in the engine bay from all this, the FF engine bay with the TD6 fitted has the most room around it of any FF to work in.

FYI there is one last stage i would go to, especially when remapping for more power. Wrapping the exhaust manifold and turbo downpipe/s to just behind the bulkhead of the engine bay. This not only helps the exhaust sections last longer due to slowed cool downs but helps reduce engine bay heat. yes its a step a lot would say is possibly not needed but for the cost and while the bits are out its easy enough to do and pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things.

I'd say all in your looking at about £3k if you did the work yourself. The biggest expense being the sonnax valve block and uprated TC with engine mapping shortly behind. FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

Just a point on the tdv8 being a ford engine, a bit ot I know, but although built by ford they are basically a psa 2.7 v6 diesel witg 2 extra cylinders as far as I can tell. So far from being designed by Americans who wouldn't know a good Diesel engine from adam, they were effectively designed by the french....... Who seem to know diesels pretty well.....

I could be wrong obviously but I'm sure I've read that somewhere! There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
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Correct hdi engines even though wiki will state slightly diff they were meant to be jointly developed with psa, but psa did the real design and jlr just made them. Also bmw use the 1.6 in their mini as do ford, Volvo.... They are good engines when looked after but the key to them is good fully synth oil, ideally at half intervals.

The French excelled at diesel engines when it came to the venerable xud's which most ended up out living be body of the vehicles by a long shot and 500k isn't unheard off.

I've seen some that haven't even had a basic service last many miles and be sold on with very old oil in them and keep going but the newer engines have such tight tolerances due to new euro regs they need good oil all the time  FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

Ok so its a French engine built in the UK by Americans, How many chiefs do you need?? M57 build by Germans, at home, with no help from the rest of the world! The Germans also make some of the best Diesel engines, especially when it comes to the large Marine units.
And then we come to Rudolf Diesel, think he was German too!!

Anyway I wasn't trying to work out who builds the best engine, I'm sure that the TDV8 will be a very reliable engine in time, once its tweaked, provided that the Americans don't over tune the unit (4.4 is built in USA). I was mearly looking in to the implications of upping the TD6 to the later multi turbo spec, should the need for speed get a hold of me.

At present I'm more than happy with the performance that I get, in fact I would go as far as to say it out preforms the Landcruiser Amazon 4.2 td that its replaced, in both speed and economy, and as for comfort..... no contest. And while I must admit that it also out drags the 3Litre V6 24V Shogun that I traded in for it, it doesn't quite hit the mark when it comes to sound... you can't beat a high reving petrol V with a through exhaust system. But it is about 175% more economical, and quicker!! Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Not knocking the M57, have had a couple of them in 5 series. Cracking bit of kit in twin turbo form when I had it in 535d, the 530 gave me a bit of trouble

The earlier m57 twin turbo engines made slightly less power than the latter ones. would it not be easier to reconfigure the existing engine with bigger injectors and a larger single vane turbo, like the top gear boys did a while back with their 330d 24hr race car...

Just an idea. There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

The problem with the bigger turbo and injectors is that it would have a much higher torque spike hitting the transmission.
The twin turbo though is compound so the spool up is quick and the curve more linear. Best setup really for an ff is a linear torque curve  FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

It’s always puzzled me that the BMW 730d (E38 shape from 1998 to 2001) used the M57D30 engine (181bhp/410Nm) but with the far superior ZF 5HP24 transmission and not the GM 5L40-E unit used in the X5 and L322 with the same engine.

No good for the torques being discussed here but if anyone wants a 1058 000 023 converting to a 1058 000 032 - to fit the NV225 transfer box - let me know. It would only be good for up to 440Nm though, and you’d still have to sort out the electronics……

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Have you looked at a Garrett Ball-bearing turbo setup ? a very good increase in power, but a lot better in torque with a lower and wider spread !!!

Laurie