Hi All,

Yes, the dreaded Trans Failsafe Prog error on the dash. I didn't want to hijack anyone elses thread hence starting a new one. I've done much searching on this site and Google in general but I still need some advice please as I cannot keep throwing more parts at the car! I was very tempted to post a few weeks ago but I held back until my RSW Allcomms arrived, it came today

Some background: I bought the 2003 FFRR TD6 Vogue 3 months ago, it has 120k miles, 1 owner from new and it's still on the original gearbox. I'm guessing that the only reason it's lasted this long is that it's never towed, is on the standard 18" alloys and has spent most of it's life cruising up and down the motorway or travelling to the south of France and back. I did notice in the handbook that the ATF and filter was changed at 110k (10k miles ago) - I am hoping that was just routine and not in response to a particular problem. I'm just waiting for the day now when it goes bang, this forum is brilliant but it's frightened the life out of me!

Another point to mention is that the vehicle is rarely used and when it is, they can be very short trips - I really try not to do that and know it's not ideal in any car but not good for any car, let alone a FF. I've had the car now for 3 months and done 900 miles; 220 of those were today!

Please bear with me, I am totally non-technical and particularly useless with a spanner but I do make up for it a little with good process of elimination thinking and I can spot a fault or something not right a mile off. So here goes...........

I regularly get the Trans Failsafe Prog message at start up, I also (but not always) get the orange "LO" range light flashing. The only way to clear both faults is to turn the car off and back on again. This usually clears the problem, especially after it's put a bit of juice back into the battery. Note, the car never actually goes into limp home mode, it is purely an error code which usually clears itself within a few seconds, it doesn't (so far) stay on. I have also noticed when the vehicle is cold, the error is more likely to ping as the 'box changes gear. It did it the other day when I turned the HIDs on. Surely voltage?!

I was totally sure that this was a voltage problem on the basis that it only does it at start up and when the vehicle is warm (i.e. fully everything is fully charged) it behaves faultlessly. New parts so far have included a new battery, alternator and final stage resisitor (all LR OEM parts).

For info, I can select low range and it drives OK and switches back to high range OK. I have only tried this a few times though and try to it at least once a month to ensure everything is kept moving.

My other observation is that the if you are regularly using the vehicle (e.g. in and out at the weekend going here and there) it's faultless. But leave it parked for just a few hours and it will throw the Trans Failsafe fault on startup. Bizarrely, leaving the vehicle for a longer period seems to help somehow and instead of Trans Failsafe, I get the HDC Inactive instead. Again a voltage clue?

Today is a prime example, car left for 4 days. Started OK (sounded a little bit slow but OK) got the HDC inactive ping and drove 100 miles - Faultless. Left the car for 4 hours, started with no error, drove 100 miles home - Faultess.

If there was a big current draw, the battery would be totally dead. It almost feels like when you switch the car off there is some kind of massive power drain before the vehicle goes to sleep - Should I arrange for a current draw test? On that note, I often go to the vehicle and peer through the window and the P sign is not lit, so I am assuming it sleeps OK.

OK, to the RSW Allcomms..............

Lots of error codes, many of them have cleared but they may return, of course, when I go out and drive it again.

Transfer Box
Battery undervoltage (0x5212).
Noise on actuator signal (0x5223).
Sensor short circuit to battery (0x5221)

The above all cleared OK and have not returned (yet) - I'm just back from a 3 hour drive so everything is charged up. This is what makes me think there is a current draw!

However, there are two fault codes that I cannot clear (and maybe more when I go and drive it!)


Air Suspension Unit
CAN bus Fault.

Transmission
CAN bus brake signal fault General fault

Other views:-

Gearbox - Seems OK, nothing too much to say. It changes up and down smoothly. It hangs on to the gears for too long in my opinion (but I think they all do that) - My only observation today when on a dual carriage way and needing to slow / stop from 70MPH it almost feels like braking without putting the clutch in with a bit of pushing on and a fairly primitive couple of gears down changing - I am being pretty picky here though!

EAS - I've not paid much attention to the EAS. It seems to behave OK and I don't get any error codes, it goes into / out of motorway mode without a problem. It doesn't seem as responsive as the P38 I had though and seems to take an age to pump up into off road mode.

Thank you very much for reading this far, all views are very welcome and I'm very much hoping someone has some suggestions and pointers.

Thank you in advance........  2006 4.2 SC
2019 Renault Zoe Dynamique Nav

I would say you still have a voltage problem, have you had a multimeter on it? One day your life will flash before your eyes......................................make sure yours is worth watching!

Hi Mate,

I would love to think it was just a voltage problem but as it's fully charged now from it's long run I would say something is amiss as I still can't clear those 2 faults.

I have had a meter on it, battery ranges from 12.2V - 12.3V (when left for a few days) to 12.6V when "hot". When the engine is running this goes up to about 14V at 2k RPM. So the battery and alternator appear OK (and should be as they are brand new).

As mentioned, it's almost like there is a huge current draw when the vehicle is awake but OK when asleep. Do you reckon it's worth me doing a current draw test? 2006 4.2 SC
2019 Renault Zoe Dynamique Nav

The Air Suspension can bus fault is "normal" doesn't appear to have any impact on anything

I would look at the transmission brake signal fault a bit more closely, strange nothing coming on that side of things?

Also, as a workaround, try moving into Neutral before you start the car, do you still get the fault?

Have you greased your linkages yet?

You say new battery from LR ?

Check everything powers down as it should, see red light on gear panel goes out after @ 20 minutes and DVD (in boot) switches off after a few minutes, and also do current drain test on battery/fuses.

Apart from the TFS message, mine does all these things on a 2 year old battery. If morning/overnight temp is <8 degrees I get HDC inactive  .
Experience is the only genuine knowledge, but as time passes, I have forgotten more than I can remember
Volvo V70 P2 2006 2.4 Petrol 170bhp Estate SE
MG Midget Mk1 1962

Previous: L322 Range Rover TDV8 3.6 2008; L322 Range Rover TD6 3.0 2002; P38A Range Rover V8 1999

But he is getting a Bat undervoltage warning. that would say to me a problem somewhere with drain or faulty battery. reading 12.2v is quite under charged. One day your life will flash before your eyes......................................make sure yours is worth watching!

Tricky one, you actually might have been slightly over descriptive here I think your first step is to check for current drain, it's unlikely though to be your cause if your car will start fine after 4 days with no use. Here's a vid if your unsure how to check it's simple enough and worth a go.

I'd say anything canbus related could effect other parts of your operating system, data line spikes and voltage drops certainly can lead to all kinda of spurious faults.

You say the car drives ok or is at least smooth enough so that's one good thing at least. Without in depth knowledge or technical know how you might find it easier and cheaper to take it to an independent garage, it's all well and good guessing parts but nothing for the RR is what you would call cheap and before you know it you could be into the many hundreds without a resolution.

HDC inactive is nothing to worry about during engine start up, it's common and I get it from time to time.

Hello Chaps,

Many thanks for your replies, I really appreicate your efforts. I'm sorry to give such a detailed life story but just wanted to set the scene!!

Update for today....................

- I had to go back to the vehicle twice in the night as I'd left stuff in it, so had to wake it up twice.-
- This morning; unlocked vehicle, disconected the battery - Meter showed 12.6V to 12.7V unconnected
- Performed current draw test using the -ve terminal:
- Locked vehicle current draw of 4,1A with the ECU fan running (PS - Can someone explain to me the purpose of that ing PC fan on a cold day in January?!)
- ECU fan stops, current draw is 580mA and remains pretty static until ECU shutdown
- ECU shutdown occurs (I didn't time it but it was about 15 - 20 minutes); current draw is 20mA (it occasionally dips to 10mA and / or up to 30mA)
- Removed the meter, battery voltage still between 12.6V and 12.7V
- Connected battery charger. Orange charging light came on followed by green "charged" light.
- The -ve battery terminal looked a bit new and shiny for my liking so I gave it a good rough up with some glass paper and reconnected the battery lead, nice and tight to ensure a good earth
- Started vehicle, no faults (other than the usual left to right steering reset)

So that seems in order?

One question, my P38 used to suffer from RF interference and kept waking the ECU up. I am not sure whether it was my weather station, WiFi or cordless telephones! Is the L322 completely and utterly immune to RF intereference or could that be a possibility and it's waking up in the night?

Well, I have cleared all the faults now and I am going on another 200 mile round trip tomorrow so we'll see how it goes.

If the Trans Failsafe Prog keeps persisiting then I think I will have to do as SteveyD suggests and take it to someone with a bit more knowledge.

Thanks again for the opinons. Any other suggestions, comments or thoughts are welcome as always!  2006 4.2 SC
2019 Renault Zoe Dynamique Nav



Last edited by SKOT on 9th Jan 2013 1:46pm. Edited 1 time in total

might not be the answer but if the obd cover isnt shut properly that causes a current drain.. ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

Hi Stan,

I did see that suggestion on one of your previous posts (which also proves that I did search long and hard before posting! ) and I always make sure the OBD cover is "closed" just in case.

Thank you for the suggestion though........ 2006 4.2 SC
2019 Renault Zoe Dynamique Nav

knowing the traits of the fullfat you'll probably find it sorts itself out on its own..  ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

I hope so, Stan. Every time I hear that "bong" I leap out of my skin wondering what is going to be next!!

 2006 4.2 SC
2019 Renault Zoe Dynamique Nav

One thing you could try (and this seems to be my favourite advice on all electrical problems if you see my responses to similar posts ) is to clean all your electrical connections. All the ground leads on chassis, take them off, clean them thoroughly, apply a thin coat of Vaseline and tighten them properly. Same for the clamps of the battery and battery poles.

Most connectors are properly sealed but it may not hurt to do the same, especially the engine bay connectors and fuses.

12 Volt systems are very sensitive to resistance (as the voltage drop with a bit of resistance is quite high, percentage wise) and corrosion is a prime cause of resistance.

I would say 90 to 95% of electrical problems with cars and bikes are linked to bad connections (due to corrosion or coming loose) and sensors. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

We don't normally see a TFS message/bong/fault when there is a battery/voltage problem normally the HDC/ABS chain of events (or non events) .
Experience is the only genuine knowledge, but as time passes, I have forgotten more than I can remember
Volvo V70 P2 2006 2.4 Petrol 170bhp Estate SE
MG Midget Mk1 1962

Previous: L322 Range Rover TDV8 3.6 2008; L322 Range Rover TD6 3.0 2002; P38A Range Rover V8 1999

Joe90 wrote:

Also, as a workaround, try moving into Neutral before you start the car, do you still get the fault

Joe90 - If TFS is going to happen it happens before that...............As soon as the "Pre Heating" sign goes out so before I've got anywhere near changing gear.

That aside...........I started from cold this morning and BONG - My heart sank until I peered through the broken pixels to see the external temperature warning. The FF has behaved faultlessly all day - 200 miles. I had 3 more Bongs, all external temp. In contrast I was getting the TFS every few minutes a days ago. Hurrah!

Thinking back, all I've done is secured the battery earth (rubbed the terminal and connector with glass paper and made a really tight connection) and cleared the fault codes with Allcomms.

The only other thing I can think is the new battery (OEM part) has never really had a really good, deep charge that the past 400 miles will have put in but I think I'm pulling at straws there.

I'm not counting my chickens yet, so please your fingers crossed for me chaps!

Many thanks for all the advice so far. 2006 4.2 SC
2019 Renault Zoe Dynamique Nav

(fingers crossed behind back ) .
Experience is the only genuine knowledge, but as time passes, I have forgotten more than I can remember
Volvo V70 P2 2006 2.4 Petrol 170bhp Estate SE
MG Midget Mk1 1962

Previous: L322 Range Rover TDV8 3.6 2008; L322 Range Rover TD6 3.0 2002; P38A Range Rover V8 1999