All, its quite simple anything with HTHS value of less than 3.5 will be detrimental,both my vehicles below

1. 2012 L322 4.4 tdv8
2. Imported japanese spec 2024 Land cruiser Lc300 with 3.3 v6 diesel

both run redline 5w40 euro spec with HTHS of 4.4

anything below 3.5 will be detrimental, all C specs are designed to protect DPF NOT the engine, best out of the lot is C3 wouldnt use anything else.

Will be deleting the DPF on both and will be running redline 5w40 with A3/b3 ultimiate engine protection

Well, yes, we can choose to ignore the legislation and the environment, of course, each to his own.

Neither of the above vehicles are even relevant to this discussion, please read the thread properly in it’s entirety, thank you so much. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

I got to wondering did JLR and Ford choose 5W-30 C1 because it was easily obtained OR did 5W-30 C1 become readily available BECAUSE JLR and Ford recommended it.  Geoff

@Geoff:
A bit of both, I think: Motor Mfrs and Oil Suppliers work together to produce low-viscosity oils to enable them to meet economy and environmental targets, sometimes at the expense of longevity of the components, so long as they can squeak through the average warranty length they don’t give a hoot about who gets left with a dead engine bill to pick up thereafter. Those with warranty-induced paranoia of course are hamstrung by the terms “Approved” and “Recommended” into using what may not be the best thing for the vehicle in the longer term, and those same customer types are more likely to go for another new warranted vehicle, disposing of their “can of worms” perhaps unwittingly, into an unsuspecting used market.  “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Some more content about problems with oil, and emissions, not just JLR.

 2017 SDV8 4.4 silicon silver AB
2012 TDV8 4.4 Stornaway Grey AB
2011 TDV8 4.4 Buckingham Blue
2012 VW V6 3.0 Tougreg

I'd like to make it concrete: for a 2017 SDV8 with DPF and Adblue the 5W40 C4 is the best oil?

Can't find 5W40 C4 on autodoc or else....

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/engine-oil/sae-5w-40

or is the 5W40 C3 also good?
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/engine-oil/sae-5...on=acea-c3

Also wondering what the difference is between Edge and Magnatec for my SDV8 448DT

Anyone have a link?

Just to be clear, it's my understanding that 5W/40 C1 or 5W/40 C4 is not currently obtainable - in the UK at least, or Europe it would seem!

The OP was stating he could get some from the Middle East if enough interest. That was the point of this thread.

There's a lot of debate on the effects of using C3 grade oil in your DPF equipped vehicle, personally I'd stick to 5W/30 C1 and change it regularly to avoid any issues from soot (in oil) build up, but more importantly the effects of fuel dilution in DPF equipped vehicles.

Someone will no doubt come along now stating that the ash content in C3 is still relatively low, but it's a personal preference of mine to stick to the recommended C1.

I've watched the LRTime YouTube video's where they recommend putting 5W/40 into 3.0 TDV6 / SDV6, but also note when they attached an oil pressure gauge, oil pressure did not increase with the 'thicker' 40 weight oil. So they're risking their DPF for no measurable difference in terms of running oil pressure. Having said that *if* 5W/40 C1 or C4 was available, I'd probably use it in my higher mileage vehicles, but still stick to 6 monthly oil changes.

Jon 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
2014 Disco 4 HSE
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

Hi Jon, very well put, I thought.

I’m in the same boat, at least until I can convince myself to spend a 5-figure sum on the appropriate oil.

It seems some folks above have completely missed the point that NONE of the LR Time vehicles have the later EURO 6 DEF-DPF’s which require very low ash C1/C4 oils. You may well get away with C2/C3 in older pre DEF vehicles.

Regens can only burn off soot, the ash remains after regen and eventually reduces the effectiveness of the DPF to the point it must be replaced, so using an oil with higher sulphated ash content cannot be recommended, it’s a 1-way ticket to a big bill. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Thats true. The Queen from LR Time is a non Adblue SDV8 EURO5 diesel. So they I have nothing to do with Adblue. In this discussion it is not very clear which oil I have to use for a 2017 SDV8 EURO 6 Adblue.

Regarding Castrol 5W40 Edge is slightly thicker than Magnatec so I prefer the Edge (off course when using Castrol).

I was also wondering the difference between Edge and Edge Turbo Diesel because the normal Edge is also used for the SDV8 diesel.
Edge https://www.autodoc.co.uk/castrol/21499886
Edge Turbo Diesel https://www.autodoc.co.uk/castrol/9030072

Shell Helix does not have any C1,C3,C4 specification.....
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/shell/13627660

Here is what LR says:
We hope this message finds you well. At Range Rover World, we are committed to ensuring the peak performance and longevity of your beloved vehicles. Today, we bring to your attention a critical issue affecting all Range Rovers, particularly those with Diesel Particulate Filters (DPFs).

The Core Problem: Oil Dilution in Range Rovers

Our research, in collaboration with the Oil Lab, has uncovered a significant challenge in Range Rover models, particularly those equipped with the SDV6 and SDV8 engines. The root of the issue lies in the DPF regeneration process, where additional fuel is injected during the exhaust stroke. This method, while necessary for the DPF's functionality, inadvertently allows fuel to seep past the piston rings, contaminating the engine's oil.

Startling Discovery: Viscosity Deterioration

Our intensive testing revealed alarming results. A standard SDV6 oil sample, expected to maintain a 5W30 Synthetic oil grade, degraded to a 5W15 grade after just 4,000 miles of usage. This drastic drop in viscosity compromises the oil's protective and lubricating properties, endangering the engine's internal components.

The Experiment: Seeking Solutions

In our pursuit of a remedy, we conducted an intriguing experiment. After switching the oil in SDV6 and SDV8 models to a 5W40 grade and repeating the 4,000-mile test, the oil's degradation was noticeably reduced, maintaining a 5W30 spec even after an extended 8,000-mile run. Replicating this test across multiple vehicles consistently yielded similar results.

Our Conclusion: A Vital Recommendation

The findings are clear: both the SDV6 and SDV8 engines suffer from severe oil dilution. Our forensic analysis strongly recommends transitioning to a 5W40 C1 Edge or equivalent oil for maximum engine life preservation. Additionally, this oil grade showed a significant reduction in metal particles compared to the 5W30 oil when diluted, indicating better engine protection and reduced metal-on-metal contact.

Immediate Action for Range Rover Owners
Given the prevalence of engine failures in the Land Rover community due to oil dilution, we urge owners, especially those using the standard 5W30 oil, to consider more frequent oil changes – every 6,000 miles. Alternatively, removing the DPF could provide a more permanent solution to this issue. We understand the importance of your Range Rover's performance and reliability. As such, we are dedicated to keeping you informed and providing solutions to enhance your driving experience


So.... even Land Rover is not making a difference between a SDV8 non Adblue Euro5 and SDV8 adblue Euro 6.... and they even don't talk about C1, C3, C4 at all.

Gremlin500 wrote:

Hi Jon, very well put, I thought. <SNIP>

Thanks Gremlin, appreciate that!  1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
2014 Disco 4 HSE
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

Hi roel2018,

Just taking a few paragraphs from your reply Hope you don't mind!

roel2018 wrote:

I was also wondering the difference between Edge and Edge Turbo Diesel because the normal Edge is also used for the SDV8 diesel.
Edge https://www.autodoc.co.uk/castrol/21499886
Edge Turbo Diesel https://www.autodoc.co.uk/castrol/9030072

Shell Helix does not have any C1,C3,C4 specification.....
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/shell/13627660

Without checking the spec sheets for the first two oils, I don't know the difference between them. I would point out that they are both C3 oils (mid SAPS) and not C1 oils.

BUT, the Shell Helix you refer to is not suitable for a DPF equipped vehicle being an A3/B3. I think you know this, but just though I'd point it out!

A quick summary of available oil classifications can be found here:
https://penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre...ations/364

roel2018 wrote:

Here is what LR says:
We hope this message finds you well. At Range Rover World, we are committed to ensuring the peak performance and longevity of your beloved vehicles. Today, we bring to your attention a critical issue affecting all Range Rovers, particularly those with Diesel Particulate Filters (DPFs).

roel2018 wrote:

Our Conclusion: A Vital Recommendation

The findings are clear: both the SDV6 and SDV8 engines suffer from severe oil dilution. Our forensic analysis strongly recommends transitioning to a 5W40 C1 Edge or equivalent oil for maximum engine life preservation. Additionally, this oil grade showed a significant reduction in metal particles compared to the 5W30 oil when diluted, indicating better engine protection and reduced metal-on-metal contact.
[b]

roel2018 wrote:

So.... even Land Rover is not making a difference between a SDV8 non Adblue Euro5 and SDV8 adblue Euro 6.... and they even don't talk about C1, C3, C4 at all.

Hi Jon, I was about to pen a very similar reply

RR World mention “Severe” dilution, but I disagree: based on my own findings, after oil sample analysis the past 2 years, I only get 1% dilution per 3000 urban miles, and the JLR “maximum” allowable is 7%? That would suggest 5.3% dilution in 16000 miles maximum to the next service, which is hardly “severe”.
One caveat here is that by actively monitoring soot levels and pre-empting regens to prevent failed instances, I am minimising dilution. The uneducated may blissfully suffer far worse dilution unawares.

However, before we stray too far off topic, the main discussion is on which oil to use going forward, especially for engines which may suffer combined dilution and DPF ash issues, there is no point fixing one to worsen the other. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Fully agree Gremlin500

Your actions to mitigate partial regens is no doubt extending the life of your oil and doing your engine a great favour. I do something similar myself, and before a decent motorway journey I'll trigger a regen if soot levels are suitable high, so the vehicle doesn't try to do the same on a later shorter run, and potential fail and be incomplete.

I'm sure RR World's analysis is correct, with the 5W/30 being more like 5W/15 after 4K miles. But... as you're fully aware, it all depends on driving habits, route, having sufficient fuel level in the tank, etc. Where they're incorrect, is in concluding people should use an oil which is not available!

I imagine oil dilution / partial regens particularly affect someone living in a city, commuting to work in traffic, doing short school runs, and running around on 1/4 tank fuel to boot! They probably see their fair share of orange / red DPF warning lights and suffer numerous partial regens and subsequent oil dilution / potential engine damage.

Back to oil though - The holy grail must be a 5W/40 fully synthetic oil with ash content <0.5% (i.e. like C1) and with HT/HS viscosity above 3.5 at 150C (like a C3), If such as oil was available, then I'd certainly be using it!

Jon 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
2014 Disco 4 HSE
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

Oh, it’s available allright, but only in huge quantities! 🙁 “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?