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pcourtney



Member Since: 14 Jan 2020
Location: Stansted
Posts: 827

England 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Sumatra Black

great work Smile

I have a GAP IID - how did you use the IID to see the height sensor was reading low and a bit intermittent/behind the 3 others, so that I can go for a drive and see if that is my problem too Razz

Post #643221 17th Sep 2022 7:38pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

Here's an update:-
Firstly, it wasn't necessary to scope any signals, my Autologic was more than capable of displaying the required values.
My intention was to do A-B comparison with a known-good vehicle, there are two sensor groups, height & acceleration.
The first check I did was a functional check on the air suspension with the vehicle stationary, which failed with an 'extended mode' message, after checking for obstructions, the analogue height sensor voltages from the left front were 'off' and erratic for both the EAS and ADM, no DTC's stored in either system so it looks like a mechanical defect with that height sensor is affecting both systems.
Next was a check of the Accelerometers, again, with the vehicle at a standstill. All analogue output voltages should be within 0.05VDC The Front left & rear sensors were reading 2.03VDC, the front right was reading 1.95VDC so marginally out of spec. All accelerometers on the known-good vehicle were reading the same.

Other observations - on road test there was a suspension noise from the front end, the voltage from the NSF height sensor continued to be erratic and the accelerometer front right voltage was consistently low, tyre scrub on the NSF was also evident, significantly more than the OSF, there was also an issue with the NSF EAS sitting low when parked and not self-levelling within 90s with the engine running. Duty cycle for the front suspension was always 12-18% higher than the rear.

The known good vehicles height sensors (EAS & ADM) reacted as expected on the road test and didn't have any 'skittishness' to the voltages, the readings from the accelerometers were also consistent on straight sections and corners, suspension duty cycle was broadly the same front to back, typically 32-38%.

Both vehicles were checked for current draw to the suspension actuators, all were to a maximum of 1.5A and passed system self-tests with no DTC's set.

Recommended actions:-
Replacement of the NSF height sensor
Determination & rectification of the front suspension knock
Four wheel alignment
EAS height calibration
Swap the rear accelerometer with the right front accelerometer, if any change in behaviour, then replace the sensor, if none, then further wiring checks required for sensor supply voltage, ground, pin grip & return line volt drop.

Sorry there's only one screenshot - I thought I'd taken more!



TBH, it doesn't show a lot - a video would have been better, the other three transitioned smoothly as the height changed, the left front was very erratic and changed in steps, suggesting the mechanical link was binding, this was especially when moving downwards, obviously when moving up the link was pulling the arm so would change more smoothly.
Sorry for the long post and lack of screenshots - there wasn't any point scoping the actuator output as the input signals were problematic.

Post #643222 17th Sep 2022 7:45pm
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mjdronfield



Member Since: 04 Nov 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 7829

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

It wasn’t an IID Tool. Phoenix brought it. I should have noticed what it was. Had its own built in colour screen. Might have been Icarsoft or similar. He will be able to advise better.

Thumbs Up 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Post #643223 17th Sep 2022 7:52pm
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mjdronfield



Member Since: 04 Nov 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 7829

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

Ah, Mr Phoenix update above whilst I was typing….🤣

Thumbs Up 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Post #643224 17th Sep 2022 7:53pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

It's an old-style Autologic

BTW, both the EAS & ADM height readings from the NSF sensor were the same, which is why I suggested it was a mechanical issue with the sensor rather than an internal / wiring issue. Thumbs Up

Post #643225 17th Sep 2022 7:55pm
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GraemeS



Member Since: 06 Mar 2015
Location: Wagga area
Posts: 2523

Australia 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Bournville

Looking hopeful!

Post #643233 17th Sep 2022 8:51pm
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Jayk69



Member Since: 08 Feb 2018
Location: Daventry
Posts: 601

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Barolo Black

good work folks, just shows a real understanding of how all the items depend on each other are required for this type of troubleshooting!!
My own issues (I get a fault on right rear Left) has led me to change the plug that goes into the shock! i traced the pair of wires as far as i could and no damage to them. when i push the wires back into the plug and separate them the fault clears for a while and normal service is resumed. So, i have ordered a cable (The Front repair one) and will add as much of the new wire as i can and report back. Thumbs Up 2012 Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - Current
2014 Navara V6 - Gone
2004 Vogue TD6 - Gone
Grand Cherokee - Gone
Discovery V8 (LPG) - Gone
Discovery TD5 - Gone

Post #643248 18th Sep 2022 10:11am
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

It does sound like the contacts are 'baggy' or possibly corroded.
Corrosion, i.e. high(er) resistance would usually lead to excess current flow before going open circuit, are you getting any open circuit or high current flow DTC's?

Post #643257 18th Sep 2022 11:14am
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Jayk69



Member Since: 08 Feb 2018
Location: Daventry
Posts: 601

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Barolo Black

I get a C0110F Right rear solenoid is open or shoted 2012 Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - Current
2014 Navara V6 - Gone
2004 Vogue TD6 - Gone
Grand Cherokee - Gone
Discovery V8 (LPG) - Gone
Discovery TD5 - Gone

Post #643259 18th Sep 2022 11:50am
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

Then it's probably not corrosion, most likely continual pull on the harness and change in temperature causing the connector to open up. When you replace the connector, make sure there is a bit of slack in the harness near the connector, use a cable-tie or two if necessary, a loose moving mass of wiring can be just as bad as something too tight as far as connectors are concerned.

Post #643260 18th Sep 2022 12:00pm
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GraemeS



Member Since: 06 Mar 2015
Location: Wagga area
Posts: 2523

Australia 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Bournville

Phoenix wrote:
. high(er) resistance would usually lead to excess current flow
Quite the opposite - the higher the resistance the lower the current flow.

Post #643268 18th Sep 2022 12:51pm
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Ffrr-lover



Member Since: 04 May 2021
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 640

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

Thank you phoenix your time on this and for the post (a few) above. Very informative. Thumbs Up

From that, if I take away the potential suspension problems on the car you checked, we appear to be left with a faulty height sensor and accelerometer (or it’s cabling).
Assuming we have our suspension in good order, then we can focus our own investigations on those. The question is… how? I have an IIDTool which does not expose those readings (unless anyone knows differently?). I have asked Gap if it’s possible but received a rather terse “not possible” response. But if the Autologic DOES read them then surely the IIDTool can too?? Currently driving: 2012 L322 SE Overfinch 4.4 tdv8

Past rides:
2014 Audi Q7 3.0d (good riddance)
2010 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged
2011 L320 HSE 3.0 sdv6
2014 Jaguar XF-RS 5.0 supercharged
2007 BMW 535D
2005 Mini Cooper S

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic59478.html

Post #643271 18th Sep 2022 1:15pm
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Jayk69



Member Since: 08 Feb 2018
Location: Daventry
Posts: 601

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Barolo Black

I have Icardoft V2 i cannot see the voltages but i can see nm and amps + the accelerometers

Phoenix thanks for the suggestion i will do that. 2012 Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - Current
2014 Navara V6 - Gone
2004 Vogue TD6 - Gone
Grand Cherokee - Gone
Discovery V8 (LPG) - Gone
Discovery TD5 - Gone

Post #643278 18th Sep 2022 2:57pm
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pcourtney



Member Since: 14 Jan 2020
Location: Stansted
Posts: 827

England 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Sumatra Black

I guess the likelihood for a height sensor to fail is pretty high on these L322's Mad

so shall I just replace all 4 height sensors at the same time, given that my 2011 was 11 years old last week Smile

NB I also can't figure out how to do live readings on my IID - so maybe overkill, but probably best to replace all 4 sensors !

Post #643281 18th Sep 2022 3:28pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

Ffrr-lover wrote:
Thank you phoenix your time on this and for the post (a few) above. Very informative. Thumbs Up

From that, if I take away the potential suspension problems on the car you checked, we appear to be left with a faulty height sensor and accelerometer (or it’s cabling).
Assuming we have our suspension in good order, then we can focus our own investigations on those. The question is… how? I have an IIDTool which does not expose those readings (unless anyone knows differently?). I have asked Gap if it’s possible but received a rather terse “not possible” response. But if the Autologic DOES read them then surely the IIDTool can too??


It *may* be able to - the Autologic was developed alongside LR's own product development - not quite with LR's blessing but there were 'conversations' as I understand it.
Now back to the issue of checking voltages etc. All the inputs are analogue, so it's possible to monitor (albeit only as many as you have voltmeters to hand) and compare to the published measurements without plug-in diagnostics, which what what I was expecting to have to do if the static A-B checks were OK.

Accelerometers, these should all read the same with a +/- 0.05VDC tolerance - on a static test
Height sensors - these are more difficult but should be in the range of 0.3 to 4.7VDC, the key is smooth transition when reacting to movement, the fronts have a bigger variance than the rears and broadly, the LH of the vehicle voltages will rise when the RH of the vehicle falls and vice-versa when the suspension is commanded in the opposite direction, on a static test

Outputs are more difficult to test without specific equipment, but a voltmeter across the output of the module will indicate activity on a road test if the inputs are valid (to the control unit, not necessarily correct measurements) and the output circuit is intact.

what won't set a DTC is garbage inputs, hardware defects (a leaking or jammed damper) or even sometimes poor connections or corroded wiring. For example, the voltage differential on mjdronfield's accelerometer could be due to a resistive connection rather than a low output voltage, only further testing will confirm - the current in sensor circuits is so low that a resistance check wouldn't show up anything meaningful - which is why most marques now train technicians to either use a dummy load (with both ends of the circuit isolated) or check for volt drop on the mV scale.

Sometimes the only valid indication of a defect is an A-B roadtest - which thanks to Haylands we were able to do, it confirmed both suspected areas of concern needed further work / investigation.

Post #643282 18th Sep 2022 3:32pm
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