Right did this today and all went well.

For the TD6 only;

symptoms - intermittent non starting, turning fine & battery fine, drove fine when started. Fuel delivery problem. shaking tank started fuel pump. TD6 has two fuel pumps, further investigation proved it to be the secondary not always cutting in.

The secondary fuel pump is strapped to the fuel tank, access to it is vai a small hatch, near side in front of rear wheel. Not mentioned in RAVE but it is in the same location as the fuel filter for the petrol's.

Put it in off road, some axel stands to the rear for safety, remove hatch, remove two screws on pump straps, pull pump down, clap either side of pump as its a low point and will leak some derv, remove electrical connector. I carefully broke off the ear type hose clips with some long nose pliers and removed old pump, swap rubber cover onto new. Bought two fuel hose clips 12-14mm (type with nut & bolt, not worm type jubilee). Refit is reversal, check for leaks with engine running.

Easy job i done it....  2004 black Vogue TD6

letsavit2 wrote:

Right did this today and all went well.

For the TD6 only;

symptoms - intermittent non starting, turning fine & battery fine, drove fine when started. Fuel delivery problem. shaking tank started fuel pump. TD6 has two fuel pumps, further investigation proved it to be the secondary not always cutting in.

The secondary fuel pump is strapped to the fuel tank, access to it is vai a small hatch, near side in front of rear wheel. Not mentioned in RAVE but it is in the same location as the fuel filter for the petrol's.

Put it in off road, some axel stands to the rear for safety, remove hatch, remove two screws on pump straps, pull pump down, clap either side of pump as its a low point and will leak some derv, remove electrical connector. I carefully broke off the ear type hose clips with some long nose pliers and removed old pump, swap rubber cover onto new. Bought two fuel hose clips 12-14mm (type with nut & bolt, not worm type jubilee). Refit is reversal, check for leaks with engine running.

Easy job i done it....

top post - great information

sticky or Wiki? should be

Mines started to do exactly the same
Where do you access the pump ? is it inside the car under the rear seats or is the hatch outside in the wheel well ?
Is there a part number for the pump and how much please.
Thanks in advance

mercs600 wrote:

Mines started to do exactly the same
Where do you access the pump ? is it inside the car under the rear seats or is the hatch outside in the wheel well ?
Is there a part number for the pump and how much please.
Thanks in advance

Access to the primary pump that is in the tank is from under the rear seat. The secondary pump which i had to replace is accessed from under the car, get under just in front of the nearside rear wheel and look for a hatch with two bolts, the secondary pump is behind that. When ignition on 11 you should be able to here both pumps prime, slight hum from tank offside is your primary and as above for secondary.

The secondary pump is standard across alot of cars so don't get ripped of at land rover for £130, I bought mine here;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...K:MEWNX:IT

offered the guy £50 he came back with £55. If you need a brand buy the BMW one, should be cheaper than land rover, part numbers on same link above.

Good Luck, keep us informed....  2004 black Vogue TD6

Cheers - I had a look at that one last night
Just made a £50 offer waiting to see now

hows it going mercs, you get your pump? sorted the problem? 2004 black Vogue TD6

Right - recieved the pump today and fitted it in approx 15-30 mins - no problem.
Fault still persists
Went on a 40 mile journey and parked up and switched off for 30 mins - came back and stood cranking the engine over for a good 30 seconds+ before it started !
Purchased a new fuel filter and fitted - after a short journey still the same !
What I am getting is basically anywhere between 15 -60 seconds of turning the engine over before it starts and when it does there is no clouds of diesel smoke etc - all is normal so I don't suspect overfuelling etc and as the temperature is 10+ the glow plugs are ruled out of the equation.
Got the misses to watch the opaque pipe from the diesel filter into the engine to see if any air was getting through - all OK no air bubbles So basically now I'm totally stumped !
Anyone have any other ideas ?

Forgot to add - when it starts it runs fine - no smoke etc and no hesitation/loss of power or missing - runs very smoothly !
Just a T t starting - and boy - do you get some looks

this is a bit long but very interesting...

Diesel engines are easily pleased and need just a few basic supplies to get them going and keep them clattering away happily. They need fuel to burn, preferably in a nice fine spray, air to burn it in and enough heat to start the fire. When the engine won’t start, lack of air is rarely the problem. Unless there is a major restriction the engine will suck it in. So, that leaves lack of fuel or not enough heat as the only possibilities.

If fuel is being squirted in but there’s not enough heat to ignite it, the unburned fuel will pass straight into the exhaust and out of the tailpipe. This gives a simple and easy check. When the engine won’t start, ask someone to crank the engine for about fifteen seconds with their foot pressed down on the accelerator. If fuel is being injected you will see it coming from the tailpipe after five to ten seconds as a dense white smoke. If you get the white smoke, the entire fuel system is working and there’s simply not enough heat to ignite it. More importantly, the very expensive injector pump is working correctly, so question any advice that suggests you need a new one. If there is no smoke when you crank the engine, make sure there is some fuel in the tank, if the car’s parked on a steep gradient and you can get it onto level ground safely, try again, or get the car recovered to a garage for further investigation.

Heat is normally supplied by the very high compression pressure, but for cold starting, glow plugs are small electric heaters that give an extra boost to the temperature. Problems fall into three categories: glow plugs, a worn engine with poor compression or a starter that’s not turning the engine quickly enough. A further problem can be worn or dirty injectors, giving a coarse, uneven dribble of fuel rather than the fine spray the engine expects.

If the white smoke was coming from the exhaust, you will usually get the engine started eventually and once it’s fully warmed up you can take another stroll round to the back of the car and study the smoke. A very worn engine will betray itself by burning oil, giving a bluish tinge and acrid smell to the exhaust. High oil consumption is confirmation of this. A major overhaul is the only permanent cure.

Worn or dirty injectors show themselves by black smoke on acceleration or under very heavy load. An injector service by a diesel specialist will often transform a lacklustre engine – even though the manufacturers claim that it’s not necessary. An alternative is to use a premium diesel fuel such as BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power for a couple of tankfulls. The extra strong detergent in these fuels cleans all the deposits off the injectors and the effect is the same as de-scaling your showerhead. You get a fine, accurately aimed spray rather than a weak dribble, and the fine spray is what the engine relies to burn the fuel evenly and efficiently. If the engine is below about 80,000 miles or so, this may be enough to restore good starting performance.

If there’s no evidence of blue or black smoke and the engine is still hard to start, have the glow plugs and their relay checked by a competent auto electrician, but get him or her to check the starter motor circuit as well. I have known many diesel cars and vans that were cured of an unwillingness to get up and go in the morning by simply cleaning and tightening the heavy starter cable connectors. A high resistance anywhere in the starter circuit starves the starter motor of electricity and it can’t turn the engine quickly enough to get maximum compression and heat. It is a very common, cheap to repair and often overlooked cause of difficult starting.

So, a little understanding and a smoke break can help you only to pay for the repairs you need. And if you have taken the car to a garage to cure a cold starting problem, arrange to collect the car first thing in the morning and make it clear to the garage that the engine must not be started until you arrive. Check this if necessary by feeling the engine when you get there. Then make sure it starts quickly and reliably before you pay up.  ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

Is it a hot start only issue? coolant sensor? you plugged in a OBD, any codes?

you have checked all i would, Scarey's post has some more checks to look at. 2004 black Vogue TD6

There is no white smoke on start up and no black smoke when running or under acceleration.It does it when the engine is cold and when the engine is warm - but I would say it is more difficult to start when warm (requires and extra 10-20 seconds of cranking over). The battery is good and spins the emgine over fast enough with no drop in crancking speed.
Still stumped and having to keep my fingers crossed when starting
This problem did seem to manifest itself after I changed the starter motor but all connections were removed and cleaned and reassembled tightly (I am an electrical engineer) and looking around the area of the starter I can see nothing amiss (pipes off etc) - however there is a rubber pipe hanging spare under the engine which goes into a 'T' piece and then to the lower subframe mounting bushes so I don't think this has anything to do with it.

Have a browse through this....

http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic4291.html?highlight=injector

Hope it helps.  2010 Disco XS TDV6, 2009 Freelander 2 GS

Previous Landrover products -1990 110 TDI CSW, 2003 TD6 Vogue - RRC TD Vogue, RRC v8 Fleetline, Disco ES V8 LPG, 101 Ambulance "Morph", 1964 SIIa Auto Powered by Jag 4.2 Lump - "Percy".

Right - had a damn good look around the engine (top and bottom) to see if any pipes were off etc - all OK.
As to what has been mentioned about injector leakage is starting to add up - especially reading some other RR forums and Audi forums.
My thinking is to purchase one injector and do the leak test to find the culprit - this then will hopefully solv my starting issue ! As to todays event - well..... you will have to look under 'General' - needless too say I'm not very happy !

Many thanks to all that made suggestions - it's now fixed and starting as it should
I did the leak test as recommended with the fish tank pipe and it showed that Injector No1 was leaking - fitted a new injector and now starts lovely
Will now send the leaking injector away for refurb - in preperation for the next one