PeterRRVogue wrote:

johnboyairey wrote:

of course, if you were to remove the oil suction cover for draining the engine sump, and with some tube, fitted, blow in... it should be sealed after a blow, and not pouring your 'puff' out of a hole in the block.... I just wonder if you have the typical starter motor wiring issue... AND a hydro locked engine, from the turbo, or water leak/wading calamity. I would be trying with thick cables direct to the starter, from another battery, with ignition on.... to see if it will indeed spin a little... and not crap itself every time you key the button.

Thanks Johnboyairey!

I will try today to spin the engine with a second battery with ignition on. Just to check that I'm on the same page with this, here is what I'll do: I connect the constant 12v from the Starter to the positive terminal on the second battery, Negative terminal from the second battery to the negative terminal on the main battery (or directly to the engine block); and then I try to start it by bridging the constant 12v on the starter with the solenoid terminal on the starter. I assume this is what mean?

Also I will try to blow air through the oil suction pipe and see if the block is air tight or not and report back.

Hi guys, so I managed to do as suggested and here are the results:

1) I disconnected the constant 12V from the starter motor, and applied a direct 12V from a second battery. Initially I had no spin but after several attempts, the starter started spinning the engine, albeit not very freely (see attached video)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6Ud9T3hns-I

Last edited by PeterRRVogue on 20th Apr 2022 11:58am. Edited 2 times in total

I also connected a tightly fitted tube to the oil suction pipe (see foto) and tried to blow in. The bad news is that I could fairly easily blow the air in (hearing oil bubbling in the engine). I could not see any oil escaping from the side of the engine (the engine has 9.5l of fresh engine oil) but if I understand this correctly, I shouldn't be able to blow the air into the engine unless there is a hole in the block?

Click image to enlarge

The engine has a breather that vents to the inlet tract.

Your video sounds as though the battery doesn't have enough cranking amps.

well, it turns over! maybe you don't have high current passing through the connections, and its as sluggish as the video suggests. guess its still easy to reconnect the original cables, and try again, and maybe with a different battery, (the second battery?) and see if it cranks faster? i wouldn't worry about looking for a holed block, as that is a typical thing of a terminally ruined engine, (normally if a con-rod bearing starts to run dry, and start 'knocking' and then lets go from the crankshaft, it get hit by the crankshaft on the next revolution, and is smashed through the block... its still possible, but you might be seeing oil getting thrown out that hole by now, with the slow cranking... i would stick to getting good cleaned connections to the starter, and battery terminals, and seeing if it will crank faster. if you can get it cranking, but not 'firing' that can be a multitude of different things, but the way to prove it 'can fire up' is to spray some Easy Start (halfords) into the plenum, via the air filter pipe(s) pop one off, and give it 5 seconds or spray into the engine) -if you get a slight fire up, then you are missing fuel, ie fuel pressure.... and the easy start is firing up, and trying to start etc. it needs to be pinning over faster firstly though. keep the details coming! -can we get longer videos??

Quote:

The engine has a breather that vents to the inlet tract.

johnboyairey wrote:

well, it turns over! maybe you don't have high current passing through the connections, and its as sluggish as the video suggests. guess its still easy to reconnect the original cables, and try again, and maybe with a different battery, (the second battery?) and see if it cranks faster? i wouldn't worry about looking for a holed block, as that is a typical thing of a terminally ruined engine, (normally if a con-rod bearing starts to run dry, and start 'knocking' and then lets go from the crankshaft, it get hit by the crankshaft on the next revolution, and is smashed through the block... its still possible, but you might be seeing oil getting thrown out that hole by now, with the slow cranking... i would stick to getting good cleaned connections to the starter, and battery terminals, and seeing if it will crank faster. if you can get it cranking, but not 'firing' that can be a multitude of different things, but the way to prove it 'can fire up' is to spray some Easy Start (halfords) into the plenum, via the air filter pipe(s) pop one off, and give it 5 seconds or spray into the engine) -if you get a slight fire up, then you are missing fuel, ie fuel pressure.... and the easy start is firing up, and trying to start etc. it needs to be pinning over faster firstly though. keep the details coming! -can we get longer videos??

Thanks Johnboyairey!

I guess before I reconnect the original cable, I first need to fix the main battery cable issue at the starter motor as currently there is no constant 12V going to the SM though the original cable. Also I suspect that the alternator might be faulty causing dead short as I keep getting 'low battery" warning despite that the fact that the main battery is brand new and constantly on a trickle charger. It doesn't seem like removing the alternator is an easy job just to test this theory though I will probably just order a new alternator and try to fix the main battery cable and then try to start the normal way and see if it spins! Sounds like a lot of work just to do a test, so if anyone has a suggestion on how to disconnect the alternator without going into all that effort, I'm all ears

Also I will take more and longer videos to keep you guys posted!

its possible to buy thick battery cables online.. so you can make up a cable, and run it direct, (with caution near exhaust etc) and bridge to connection with a known good cable. seems strange its not passing power, and i mean, 'no 12v' as you say....lack of high amp current is one thing, but no 12volts is like fully disconnected..sounds like the mega-fuse????

Quote:

its possible to buy thick battery cables online.. so you can make up a cable, and run it direct, (with caution near exhaust etc) and bridge to connection with a known good cable. seems strange its not passing power, and i mean, 'no 12v' as you say....lack of high amp current is one thing, but no 12volts is like fully disconnected..sounds like the mega-fuse????

there are some threads on here regarding the starter motor trigger wire, on the 4.4 tdv8... i have this issue, and changed starter motor twice now.... but yours has a slight different issue, in that the main cable is faulty, and not the trigger (thinner) cable. cables can go high resistance, through overheat, oxidation, even theives can reach under to cut cables to disconnect battery etc for alarms etc. im sure you will get your moment of bliss when the problem is revealed.... and you inform us its running!

If you disconnect the mega-fuse, is there a huge spark when reconnecting it with the battery connected? I suspect not as you would have mentioned it but no huge spark indicates that the alternator isn't causing a dead short. Terminals are crimped onto cables which can work loose if the cables can move near the terminals which then become high resistance joints.

If you have jumper leads you could try connecting both leads in parallel from the battery positive to the starter terminal but that still won't be as good as a proper battery cable.

Sounds like a weak battery on that video. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Alright guys, so I made a breakthrough with the 'no power to the starter' issue. And I have to say that I feel like a proper moron now! Anyways, the whole time when it was referred to MEGA fuses, I always assumed that the only MEGA fuses there were, were the couple on the firewall behind the battery. However when I looked at the direction of the positive (red) battery cables, I realised the those two (250A) MEGA fuses at the back weren't powering the starter and I assume neither the alternator. So I had the light bulb moment to open the black plastic box directly connected to the positive battery terminal and what did I find there...? Another MEGA fuse, and this time it was the 400A one! This one turned out to be a complete toast as I couldn't get any continuity on it at all. Now I wonder what would cause this MEGA fuse to blow? Could it be a dead short on the alternator as suggested by Baltic Blue? or something else? Anyways, a brand new DENSO alternator is already on the way so now I need to find and order a new 400A MEGA fuse.

Goes without saying that I feel like a proper fool for not figuring this one out sooner and I'm super grateful for all your incredibly helpful advice! I promise to keep you guys posted on my journey till the bitter end. I'm just praying that there will be no major mechanical issue with the engine as seeing all the buildup of oil sludge when taking off the top oil cooler / oil filter assembly didn't make me feel too hopeful. At the minimum, I wouldn't be surprised if the turbos wave good bye soon even if I did get the engine running after fixing this electrical issue..

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I’ve been following this with interest. I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard of one of those fuses blown.

Probably not what you want to hear but I wonder if your engine is tight which is what’s causing it to turn over slowly which in turn has put extra load on the starter and blown that fuse.

Shame it’s such an awkward job to get to the crank bolt.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 5.0 SC Autobiography in Indus Silver with Jet/Ivory Interior
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

So that’s what a 400A Megafuse looks like. , we are all going to learn a lot from your pictures and work.
Thanks
Mike. G reg 2.5VM Vogue Portofino red 1991- 1999
V reg 2.5td P38 Rioja red 1999- 2006
53 reg td6 Vogue Oslo blue 2006- 2015
11 reg 4.4 TdV8 Vogue SE. Baltic blue 2015- date.
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