I am really digging into it now, so I'm keeping the car linked up through the power meter.


Today, first time, I preheated the car from-the-grid. This used almost 1.5kWh.

I am paying ( for now ) € 0,16 cnts/kWh as I also have a heatpump and come above 10k kWh per year.

The rate is the industrial rate, much lower then domestic. So pre-heating is.. € 0,24 , quite good I think.


For EV use of the car, I only use the low electricity rate as that is what the marginal costs are now.

In the longer run ( we installed 10k kWhp solarcells in september ), it might be we come below the 10k kWh

from the grid and the real 'marginal' cost will turn into € 0,26.


Todays grocery run.

On the way down to the shops, full EV. But that was just 8,2 km, in two stretches (one short stop ).

On the way home, the ICE jumped on (stop of 30 min), and didn't switch off again, although "EV" was on, and "ECO".

[ Yesterday I did a total of 276 kM, so it can not be the small battery was low ]. Ambient was 3 C this morning.


I just finished charging it now from this short trip. It took for 8,2 kM almost 10kWh ( 9,967 kWh ) to charge to 100%.

This means it cost almost € 1,60 , or € 0,195 per kilometer.

Comparing it to petrol consumption, ( 8,8 L/100km ICE today), would come down to € 0,167 per kilometer at € 1,90 / Liter.

So even with cheap electricity and expensive petrol : EV in winter makes no economical sense, costing € 0,23 extra above the ICE mode

So maybe its better NOT TO CHARGE in winter ? Do MHEV make better sense.. ??

This is very nice and detailed, thank you. You also have to take in consideration other costs: taxes in your country (in ours zero for phev/electric - 470 EUR per year for a 2990cmc engine); access to restricted ICE areas in cities, gas consumption for an equivalent performing petrol Range Rover (I would guess 14-15l/100km in the city, 11-12l/100km outside), etc.

To me no, it doesn't make sense to use PHEV. It is why I'm waiting for a full EV version.

Our other car is electric. Guess which one we always pick for long drives?

It depends what the other car is

I-Pace... Awesome to drive, but range anxiety...

adara wrote:

This is very nice and detailed, thank you. You also have to take in consideration other costs: taxes in your country (in ours zero for phev/electric - 470 EUR per year for a 2990cmc engine); access to restricted ICE areas in cities, gas consumption for an equivalent performing petrol Range Rover (I would guess 14-15l/100km in the city, 11-12l/100km outside), etc.

We aim to please..

Roadtax.. .. Here they are very sensible, they use the weight of the car

P400e________2509 Kg ___ € 1.704- per annum
P400MHEV____2342 Kg ____€ 1.524,-per annum... ..doesn't do any good for nature..

They also have a CO2 tax. For that reason the P400e is magical:
P400e_______base price___€ 153.795,-
P400MHEV____base price___€ 189.392,-

So the CO2 madness, taxing the MHEV, works out just fine for the P400e...  I-pace First Edition Santorini & 2nd car Mazda MX-30 Advantage red/black
PHEV P400e Hybrid Autobiography Loire blue= SOLD
D5 SD4 HSE Lux Corris grey = SOLD
D3 TdV6 HSE Lux Vienna Green =SOLD
P300 F-Type 2018 Ultra Blue = SOLD
25t F-Pace 2020 Loire Blue = SOLD

Bl4ckD0g wrote:

To me no, it doesn't make sense to use PHEV. It is why I'm waiting for a full EV version.

adara wrote:

I-Pace... Awesome to drive, but range anxiety...

adara wrote:

I-Pace... Awesome to drive, but range anxiety...

Yes very nice, I had one on order but cancelled as in the early days there were too many incompatibilities with chargers and only 2 150kW chargers in the wild.

And LOL yes the tax for cars in there Netherlands, that is one part I'm not looking forward to go back to But hey other taxes can be very low, especially when you've been living abroad for as long as I have and are coming back

Dan_Veluwe wrote:

Bl4ckD0g wrote:

To me no, it doesn't make sense to use PHEV. It is why I'm waiting for a full EV version.

Thats even worse, exept for the 'no roadtax' for some years.

Just calculate on the basis of what you pay for electricity. At home it is doable.

I did the math for charging anywhere else (exept free charging with IKEA in other EU countries);

at least € 0,40 per kWh. Then ; no chargers in Spain and Portugal, very few in France.

An EV for me, only to go shopping. So my initial hunch to keep the D5 and buy a small

EV for shopping ( UP!), might have worked out better.

True in absolute terms, but as adore mentioned, there are other benefits such as access to low emission zones. Or in my case being able to park at my own home in a city centre.

EV Really doesn't make any sense, it is expensive to buy, expensive to run, home charging upgrades etc, basically have to buy new, you can buy a lot of shell optimal super unleaded for the difference before getting any payback

I'd rather go for H2..

Makes no sense energy wise, but you can use it as a power supply for your home

in case of a blackout ( Toyota Mirai ).

Nissan Leave can do too, and new Toyota BRz too..

FF-H2 maybe in 2026.. I-pace First Edition Santorini & 2nd car Mazda MX-30 Advantage red/black
PHEV P400e Hybrid Autobiography Loire blue= SOLD
D5 SD4 HSE Lux Corris grey = SOLD
D3 TdV6 HSE Lux Vienna Green =SOLD
P300 F-Type 2018 Ultra Blue = SOLD
25t F-Pace 2020 Loire Blue = SOLD

Agreed, I think Mercedes build a compatible S class as well. Would be nice if they put it in the GLS

Road tax here is the same for all automobiles (28 EUR/year), the freight transporters have a bigger tax (from 96EUR/year).
I don't think hydrogen will ever take off, expensive & dangerous... Natural gas or synthetic gasoline look better. For now, phev has many advantages...

What do you pay for,

E5 / 95 RON
kWh home
kWh charger

..these are important details..  I-pace First Edition Santorini & 2nd car Mazda MX-30 Advantage red/black
PHEV P400e Hybrid Autobiography Loire blue= SOLD
D5 SD4 HSE Lux Corris grey = SOLD
D3 TdV6 HSE Lux Vienna Green =SOLD
P300 F-Type 2018 Ultra Blue = SOLD
25t F-Pace 2020 Loire Blue = SOLD