I had both the front and rear discs and pads replaced and a rear caliper replaced on my 2006 3.6 TDV8 last week.

My drive is on a hill and when I start the car and put it into drive (with my foot firmly on the brake), the car just rolls backwards until eventually the brakes stop it. The brake pedal is extremely hard with very little travel and my foot will be pushed hard against it trying to get the car to stop rolling.

I took it back to the tyre & brake place today and for some reason, they just told me the parking brake is seized - even though this has nothing to do with the brakes on the car. So, I left puzzled as to why I told them it was the brakes and they looked at the parking brake.


I have tested tonight and the pedal will just go straight to the floor. It may build up over a minute or so but as soon as I brake once, I'm back to a solid pedal with next to zero travel.

All brakes worked perfectly before they were changed.

So, what could they have done that's caused me to lose braking?

My assumptions on possibilities are:
1. They have damaged a brake cable and it's letting In air
2. They haven't bled the brakes properly after changing the caliper (they only bled the single caliper they replaced)
3. When winding back 4x calipers, they have caused pressure to build up in the braking system and damaged something
3. Completely unrelated and the valves on my master cylinder have sudden gone, conveniently when the brakes were replaced

Anything to point me in the right direction and give me more ammunition/force to resolve the issue would be much appreciated.

Last edited by garyRR on 23rd Mar 2021 7:26pm. Edited 1 time in total

It's possible on some cars to flip the seals in the master cylinder whilst bleeding brakes. It depends on the design what the symptoms are but it sounds like it may be a possibility, depends how rough they were bleeding the brakes / pushing pistons back. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

I’m not a brake expert personally, but when I stuffed the seals in my master cylinder, the pedal went soft, though I also had a bust brake pipe at the time.

I know you have / supposed to use a diagnostic tool to bleed the brakes as it cycles the ABS valve block.

They need to take it back in and fix it.

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Your description of the symptoms sounds very odd :
"I have tested tonight and the pedal will just go straight to the floor. It may build up over a minute or so but as soon as I brake once, I'm back to a solid pedal with next to zero travel. "

Is this with the engine running ?
What do you mean by "it may build up over a minute or so" ? Is the pedal actually getting higher / are you applying more effort.
Is this immediately after engine start up ? Could it "just" be the standard effect of the vacuum in the brake servo building up after the engine is started ?

The pedal going straight to the floor, does sound like air in the system. Bleeding only the rear caliper that was replaced should be all that was needed as air could only be in that part of the circuit after removing the caliper. However, if they allowed the brake reservoir to become empty during bleeding, they could have pulled air into the mastercylinder & other brake lines, then not purged it . Paul,
2001 Discovery 2 TD5, 211,000 miles & climbing
2006 FFRR TDV8 Vogue 145,000 miles & climbing
Member of Midland (Land) Rover Owners Club, www.mroc.co.uk

Yep, back to the people that broke it is the best solution.

I've seen many variations on this, Ford Scorpio flipped the seals and the brake pedal was soft and spongey, Vauxhall Senator flipped them it was rock hard, little braking power etc, Morris Marina, pedal to the floor. None of them caused by me I hasten to add, problems cured by me! BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

I do feel a little overwhelmed.

I bought the car recently in good faith from a supposedly 4.2/5 star rated dealer on Auto Trader, safe in the knowledge it had no issues, a long MOT, 12 months AA breakdown, full service history and 6 months warranty from Warranty Assist.

Unfortunately, those reviews were fake, it came with no service history, no breakdown cover, no warranty - I contacted Warranty Assist who confirmed no policy was ever taken out and multiple MOT failures (a fake MOT). The dealer was supposed to have collected the car on 3 occasions and never did. Following the 3rd occasion, when I called to chase, they blocked my phone number. I called from a different phone number and they answered - as soon as they recognised it was me, I had abuse hurled at me, swear words and they hung up. That was the last of the contact. I sent 2x recorded letters also and, about a million emails.

I was now stuck with a car which I'd paid good money for, having full service history and no issues and have been well and truly scammed. There is a long list of repairs needed.

Now, I'm not unreasonable and at the end of the day, I'm buying a used complex car. I don't mind doing jobs like the reversing camera (common fault), driver's heated seat (again, common fault), replacing a Subwoofer (again, totally expected) and, fixing the coolant level error (again, common fault) because, I knew what to expect but, the big long list of repairs and MOT failures so far is:

- oil leak from both rocker covers and a turbo oil feed pipe (fixed)
- faulty rain/light sensing (semi fixed)
- all discs and brake pads below the legal minimum (fixed)
- parking brake seized
- soot under acceleration (currently in progress - diagnostics said injector 2 fault so, seems a sensible next port of call)

It's really disheartening having to do all the running round garages and getting 2nd and 3rd opinions, knowing the scammed is sat there with his feet up with thousands of pounds of my money he's conned me out of, with me having to spend out thousands.

I'm trying to get the car back into full working order and running at it should so, I can care for it as I do all my cars but, spending out with no guarantee of ever getting my money back and garages doing things wrong is angering. Now I have a brake fix to add, the oil leak still continuing from somewhere and, the garage who did the service not ordering the transfer box oil or transmission service kit in time (a job I will now be doing myself) - yet another visit to a garage needed to get the transfer box done.

I'm glad I took out my own warranty on the vehicle so, any major faults not due to wear and tear going forward are covered - it's just the ones the car came with.

So are you saying that it was the seller who did the brake work, and you can’t really go back there?

When I bought mine, turned out dealer didn’t pay for warranty either, so I had all the correct policy documents, just no actual cover. Ended up paying £1000 out of my own money to get oil cooler leak and other bits done. Wasn’t worth the hassle arguing. He cleared his car lot and was gone. Lesson learnt I suppose.

You need to get it to somewhere who knows what they are doing. Hopefully just need bleeding correctly. New master cylinder on mine was £350 fitted.

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

No, the seller sold it, took my money then disappeared into thin air!

I have had to pay for and arrange every single repair (and a major service to satisfy the warranty terms, as the service history wasn't supplied), including all of the brakes last week.

think you need to name the fake dealer so no-one else makes the same mistake with them.

Done!

West Middlesex Motor Company Ltd
Also trading as Horsenden Motors Ltd

Based in Richmond / Perivale.

Unfortunately, they sell a number of cars, including Range Rovers.

I dread to think how many people they've conned. One thing is for sure - I sent a letter to the previous owner of my car and she was also conned by them so, that's at least 2 people conned on 1 car.

First stop should be to have a chat with a solicitor / local authority / trading standards etc, this is shocking, straight forward fraud.There should be some legal way of getting justice / compensation.

Yes I know.

Police - not bothered
Trading standards - not bothered
Citizens Advice - Told me to write a letter when I already had
Auto Trader - they still seem to be letting him trade, despite the complaint
His bank - same as above
Small Claims Court - currently waiting for my judgement but, the next challenge will be getting the money

The fact that you are getting a hard pedal with little travel suggests that there is not air in the system, it makes me think it is your servo that has failed and therefore not giving you any assistance. I could not say if this is something the garage has damaged or it is just a coincidence but the pedal feel is the same as when my servo started to leak 2010 3.6TDV8 Stornoway Grey/ Black interior - gone
2005 4.4V8 (M62) Bonatti Grey/ Parchment interior - gone
1998 4.6HSE Blue/ Cream interior (can't remember exact colours) - gone
1977 White - gone (should have kept)