Nicksaab, I should have said in my post that I totally understand where you're coming from ref your approach to this.

I just don't get why LR aren't all over this, or have they got so many of them they would be overwhelmed? Regardless of legalities about with whom the contract lies, LR should take this off the dealer, fix it properly and then hammer the dealer to the nearest solid object. The car has Land Rover written on it, not Listers and JLR need to start understanding exactly whose brand is suffering here (they aren't alone of course, other brands have the same issue, which they similarly don't address).

I would also have expected some more robust comment from forum members, who are clearly gentlefolk. As you say, throwing your rattle out of the pram in the dealership isn't going to resolve anything. I am incensed on your behalf!

I wish you you the very best in getting this sorted to your satisfaction and to some of the cra**ier dealerships going out of business (and no doubt blaming the pandemic!). Drives:
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue - Stornoway Grey
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue SE - Zermatt Silver
1998 BMW E36 M3 GTII

So a quick update - the car was ready on Wednesday afternoon so I dashed up to Droitwich to pick it up as I had to be in London on Thursday morning anyway and then back to West Wales last night.

1) Water Ingress - new carpet, so far looks to be dry but the amount of water fallen in the last few days should prove that one way or the other. I'll be having the trim out at the weekend to check

2) Power Steering issues - no sign of the issues returning so far, but not sure how as they really don't seem to have done anything

3) Battery - auxilliary battery changed again - previous one had failed

4) Coolant - Oil cooler / heat exhanger changed, EGR cooler changed. So far no coolant drop but still some oil residue in the coolant tank.

5) Tailgate - after a lot of grumbling they have eventually got it to lower slowly, soft close and stay aligned. I pointed out that having it work properly was a thing of beauty. There was a bit of grumbling as they were demonstrating but I think they now know how the tailgate should work now. I doubt it will stop them fobbing off other customers in future.

6) New turbo and actuator fitted (did this twice as apparently the first turbo was faulty so they had to fit another one.


As I drove away from the showroom, I was conscious that the car sounded like it was idling too fast. The revs on the dashboard were hovering around 650 but it still sounded a lot louder. On the motorway back down to London it seemed louder than I remember and there is a bit of resonance in the cabin at motorway speed. Coming back to Wales last night on the M4 on several occasions I took my foot off the accelerator and the revs didn't drop - it just kept the same speed, much like as if it was on cruise control. The noise is like a small hole has developed in the exhaust - its the only way I can describe it.

I think either the new turbo or actuator is faulty and sticking open or something in the EGR system hasn't been screwed on properly. Either way looks like its going back.

Sigh. Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

eject eject eject!!!!!

Nick, really feel for you. You have been more than tolerant but I would bale asap. even if they fix everything it seems to fault again and again.

I totally agree with your view about "computer monkeys". My visit to Dick Lovett Melksham to find a cause of my "over-enthusiastic" DPf regen demands was a prime example. they couldn't find what was wrong and suggested a secondary turbo oil leak update (V2, I already had the first one - 8 hrs at £168/hr) that"may" cure it!

I got more confidence with a 25 min chat with Steve at Normans of Shepton Mallet as he linked back to other cases he has had, went through the regen process and identified and excluded poss causes.

LR MD attitudes are leaning me to go for another Brand (Audi/Merc) but doubt they are much better. Trouble is after 4 FFRRs, I don't feel comfortable in any other cab.

Nick Saab, I’ve been trying to think of a silver lining for you.......how’s this?.....the accelerator/ revs are staying artificially high and not dropping as they should - at least it’s happening in the TDV8 and not your L322 V8 LE. The unnecessarily burned fuel would be costing you twice as much in that!!!!

What’s that? Doesn’t help.......I’ll get my coat ....... 2004 L322 4.4 V8 Vogue Bonatti Grey
(205,500 miles and counting.......)

Thanks guys - it will be getting moved on asap but part of me just wants to make the dealer put the effort in - its not costing me anything and if they want me to bring it back again to sort the turbo/leak then it will be going back on the back of a Landrover Assistance AA truck, unless Landrover will allow me to take it more local at their cost.

After all I have taught them how to align a tailgate!

I know - I'm being too patient. On the other hand there is nothing out there on Landrover Approved Used which is sparking any interest in me right now. The one thing this has taught me is there is no way I would buy a car like this without the backing of Landrover and Landrover's warranty. Buying from a non franchise dealer I would fully expect right now I'd be on my own.

My lad wants me to go and try a Porsche Cayenne, X5 or a G wagon. I've promised him soon we'll go and take test drives in them but I know deep down they aren't my thing. I can afford to be patient right now - not putting in the mileage right now and the longer I wait, the more I can spend on its replacement.

Besides - how could I leave the Landrover fold - there are enough other ones on the drive. I toyed briefly with buying a new Discovery 5 earlier in the fiasco as I got quite smitten with the rental I had for 7 weeks but I knew the cheaper quality interior would annoy me after a while and then there is this scenario which I know I wouldn't get over........


.....the one where as you are sitting at a set of lights, the car next to you pulls up....and its a Range Rover. Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

Looking at your car history Nick Saab, Jaguar XJ’s, petrol V8s, has your lad got a Jaguar F Type V8 on his short list as a mile muncher to keep your Land Rover fleet for the local and farm stuff?

Harry Metcalfe of Harry’s Garage on You Tube did. a review of one about a year ago.

I’ve got some of the German stuff in my daily driver history. The twin turbo X5 drove well ......until it’s timing chain snapped one week out of warranty. BMW didn’t want to know, just quoted £22k for a new engine. A specialist rebuilt if for £8.5k. Then an ML350 which was faultless but soooooo boring.

Why not get your ace local independent to look at your new Range Rover? I know the principle is that you shouldn’t have to, but it’s probably the least hassle way to have the car you really want.

Any way, never mind the new fangled one, when’s the next update on the LE?

All the best
Tom 2004 L322 4.4 V8 Vogue Bonatti Grey
(205,500 miles and counting.......)

Like the thinking Tom - have always liked the F type - but with the mile munching I do like to be up safe and tall - I bought a Celica a few years ago for fun and took it to London one week - in the pouring rain on the M4 on the way home I remembered why I had a Range Rover for the motorway miles. Ultimately you are right though on the reliability and the dealer back up - if you get a good car then you don't need the backup from the dealer and the warranty but if you don't - then thats when the brands come into their own (or not).

I have been talking to my indy last night - he said he reckons maybe a heatshield for the resonance and a sticky actuator - if i get time during the week we are going to put it up on the ramps and see if anything obvious

And also just for you - I've done the drivers door handle on the LE - now need to tackle the FSR - maybe this weekend if it stays dry! Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

Can indys not submit warranty claims? The Approved used cover is normally provided by CCP in any case. So as long as they are a VAT registered garage they should be able to submit the claim I would have thought.

It might be worth a call to the warranty provider direct to see what the situation would be. That way your Indy could do the work and then claim direct off the LrAUC Cover? There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
KIA E-Niro 4+
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Agreed - yes they can as have done for me in the past - just with the complications on this vehicle but my indy and I agree its better to let the dealership deal with it all for now that way if there is any quibbling by the warranty company the dealership has to pick up the tab.

We both think the new faults relate to something not put back right when they were replacing the turbo or the EGR cooler so warranty won't pay for a new garage to fix that - so it needs to go back to the dealership again - although trust me, its the last place I want to go! Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

Well the fiasco continues.........


Landrover and Listers approved the car going somewhere more local - although nearest local (Aberystwyth, Haverfordwest or Swansea) are all around an hour each way for me but Aberystwyth told Landrover to get stuffed - they didn't want to get involved. Haverfordwest is just a service centre - Greens stopped being Landrover dealers years ago so really don't know the newer models and Swansea said no problem but we can't give you a courtesy car.

So I told Landrover - fine, when it inevitably breaksdown Landrover Assistance will put it on a flatbed and give me a rental car. Ok said Landrover........


So its been misfiring slightly when cold the last week or so, but settles down quite quickly. Does seem to be holding the revs, the fuel pump still sounds like a bag of bolts (I'll pop a video up on it shortly) and gearchanges don't seem intune with the engine. Anyway Saturday morning started running like a three legged dog for the first 5 minutes then ran as current normal. Missus said call out Landrover but we got busy and I said I'd do it on Monday as would be easier to sort out the rental car.
Sunday morning had low screenwash warning - odd - I thought I had topped it up just a couple of weeks ago - went to top up the screenwash and ended up with wet feet - the screenwash started pouring out from under the drivers wing and front door. That does it - air turned blue as I swore and swore. Called Landrover Assist out and a nice AA gentlemen turned up.

As he got in the car to start it - he said - oh its a suspension fault issue, I thought it was engine. What???? Oh yes - loads of suspension warnings - adaptive dynamics off, suspension off, ATPC off, etc etc. Got his computer out and said there are so many CANBUS warnings I can't see anything else. He reset them all but they all came back straight away. I'll get a recovery truck for you.

OK I said, but can you look at the engine which is why I called you out - he had a look, said that fuel pump sounds horrid - and it doesn't sound like its running right - but have you noticed the smell coming from the exhaust? Its smells of unburnt fuel and exhaust gases - I lay you any odds you like your EGR system is failing...........


So AA recovered it back to Listers - Listers sent a polite email while it was on route, kindly suggesting 'for my own logistical convenience' that it would ' be better if you sent it somewhere nearer'. - read - somewhere else!!!

Cue one very curt email to Landrover Exec office asking if it was acceptable for a supplying dealer to decline to work on a car - of course not. I also said I wanted Landrover to take this matter seriously and propose other solutions as well given the car is clearly a Friday afternoon build.

So currently waiting an update on the issues........ Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

I'm gutted to hear that you're still having issues with the new fangled one nicksaab, and that the Land Rover dealer has yet to find its A Game. If it is now back at the supplying dealer, would it make sense to get a solicitor to do a letter to reject it and request a refund?

On brighter matters, any news on the LE? 2004 L322 4.4 V8 Vogue Bonatti Grey
(205,500 miles and counting.......)

I completely forgot Tom - the LE has blotted its copy book - or at least the drive - the hose from the PAS pump to the rack has split - have a new hose here ready to fit, but we all keep looking at each other and put it off - looks a pig of a job.


A positive update on the 405 though - its supposedly on its way back now - screenwash leak was a split pipe (no idea how thats happened), the fuel pump has been changed and the rattle, resonance, noise, smell has been traced to a loose crossover exhaust pipe under the engine - hopefully thats it. They haven't managed to get to the bottom of the suspension issue - have cleared all the CANBUS errors, so we have agreed for now rather than undertake expensive diagnostics to keep an eye on it - it may not come back. Who knows!

I will say though, in the interest of fairness, that although Listers have been a pain throughout this whole process, the Service Manager at Droitwich, Tony, has been fair and attentive and supportive, even when the organisation itself has been less customer focused. Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

So its back- came back on a AA flatbed on Saturday afternoon - first impressions so far are good. Thankfully the ghastly Mitsubishi Outlander that Enterprise sent will get picked up on Monday. (Sorry sir, we currently have 6 Landrover customers in the area all waiting for Landrover product rental cars). Must not grumble really - at least I kept mobile, but that was a seriously nasty plasticky under powered boring car). The lady at Enterprise did say they would get in trouble when Landrover got the bill but by taking the Mitsubishi I helped them out - happy to do that as I didn't have anything long distance to do)

So here goes -

Fuel pump no longer sounds like a 40 year old Russian Tractor (grew up driving Zeteor tractors in the 80's!)

Resonance has gone
Engine far more responsive
Gear changes more responsive
Can have a conversation in the cabin without shouting
Exhaust smell has gone
Suspension behaving.

Watch this space.......I doubt somehow this saga is over, but maybe, just maybe we are making progress Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

So its been back a couple of weeks now and although it didn't do much the week it came back its been fairly busy since.

and......

I have to say it seems to be behaving very well - its an absolute joy to drive.

The last few weeks I've been piecing together a full deployable towbar kit. I bought a towbar back in the Spring whilst the car was away for its original long stay vacation and was looking for the loom, the reinforcing frame and the buttons but sold it again on the bay when it looked like it was being changed.

I then stumbled across a second hand module online which had the wiring loom still attached based on the photos on the listing for a bargain £25! I then happened to come across a set of rear seat recline buttons listed on the usual auction site which had the towbar buttons included again for the bargain price of £30. Just been hanging on for a towbar with the reinforcing frame and the all important 2 small mounting wedges as a lot of the ones advertised currently don't have the frame or are being advertised for a L405 but have the L494 Sport reinforcing frame which doesn't fit.

One turned up the other day _ i swooped in and snapped it up and set to work on Thursday to fit it with a mate. Lifted the back of the car up on axle stands and set to work removing the rear bumper which is so simple. Wired up the loom and buttons, removed the bumper reinforcement, replaced with the new towbar armiture and attached the brackets and underfloor reinforcement and torqued up all the bolts.

Tested it, refitted the bumper, reconnected the parking sensors and connected the 13pin socket to the connectors already behind the bumper and fitted my bargain £10 under bumper towbar plastic and job done - took just over an hour - far easier job than I expected!

The entire system, towbar, loom, module, trim, switch and new bolts were just a shade over £500!

Did its first run out today - a 4 hour round trip with horse trailer to pick up a couple of horses for my wife and the car behaved impeccably. Current Fleet:-
2018 Discovery 5 3.0 HSE
2021 Ford Ranger Wildtrack
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt 5.0 V8
1993 Defender 90 200TDI Pickup

Gone - not forgotten
2016 L405 4.4 SDV8 Vogue SE
2012 L322 4.4 Westminster
2004 L322 4.4 V8 Autobiography LE
2000 P38 RR 4.0 HSE (ex Clarkson test car)

Hooray! Fantastic to read that the new one is now running well and you’re enjoying it. 2004 L322 4.4 V8 Vogue Bonatti Grey
(205,500 miles and counting.......)