^ Precisely. We have the power to vote out our own MPs, which is not the case for EU MPs. There we only have influence over our own, not those from other countries. Bring the power back and force our management to up their game.

I understand trading blocs, they make sense. But I also know we have one of the stronger economies in the EU and that to allow those who preside over weaker economies to have a say in how we run ours will only send ours in the same direction.

Besides, the member countries in the EU have a vast and diverse range of cultures. What works in one place will not necessarily work in another. Just as this showed itself in the break up of Yugoslavia it will ultimately do so in the EU. The member states are fundamentally culturally different. I liken it in very simplistic terms to having some close mates with whom I can share a lot but even there we have the unwritten list of items that are off limits, and so it must be with the EU. Trade and friendship is good but common government is bad and should not even be up for negotiation.

I'm no fanatical politics follower but I am concerned about our presence in the EU.

I watched an interview with a former politician in Norway. She spoke of scaremongering, promises of a better future and how Norway would fail if they were not in the EU. She was clearly very passionate about it but spoke of the emptiness of the promises and the realities that followed.

I then watched the economist on Question time who had done some maths and made a really tangible case for the financial gains to leave. Is this where I put the car details and a bit about myself ?........

This was posted on Disco3 and he makes much the same points as I do:



Quite long, but worth a watch, IMO.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

In this video the question "Will we have the same influence in the club when we aren't a member of the club" might be quit crucial.
Brexit for politicians seems to be more about "the club" as about what the club stands for.

That question (coming from a labour party member) shows that most politicians (probably in most EU countries) have a big fear of losing the membership and its vague advantages, without asking what the club does, who is ruling it and where the club goes. I think the word is opportunism
(the conscious policy and practice of taking advantage of circumstances – with little regard for principles, or with what the consequences are for ...)

and the more faceless bureaucrats and nearly faceless politicians are involved in this club the more opportunistic the members (thus the club) will be and act, with no regard what so ever versus the population, the economy, the human rights and peoples liberty. In fact liberty and freedom of speech are annoying obstacles for them.

I think a Brexit might be the lever that opens up Brussels or might "contaminate" other countries.

How about that....the Brits free Europe again, but now without landing on our beaches :
Let the battle of Britain become the battle for a free Europe.

We can but hope.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

Well I'm still undecided, watched question time last week, a lady on there said, "the question is not the economy, not immigration, but do you trust our government to run this country.
I think she hit the nail on the head.
DO WE.?

Rosco wrote:

This is the same as Scotland going independent, yes it could work to everyones advantage but not a hope in hell of it in reality as we have nobody to run it, thats the issue for me, I cant think of a current politician who I would be happy with running 'my company' because thats what it is, they make Philip Green look like Mother Teresa

See above Gregdav

gregdav wrote:

DO WE.?

@Rosco

don't think about the short term 'changes', think the long term, after all the immediate oddities have been dealt with, and resignations..... we will get over it, -i'm in for the long term.

however, the £350m a week 'saving', wont somehow be available to 'spend' elsewhere though.
that should at least go reducing the deficit.

and what about all those bent cucumbers, and kilo's of potatoes?
stuff 'em, im off the the fridge. for a 500ml near pint of beer, in my size 47 slippers.

I think this is a wonderful debate, I spent yesterday afternoon watching the memorial to the battle of Jutland - boy we were a force to be reckoned with back in the day. But now we have Boris, Gove and Farage to name but three leading us over the top screaming everybody is wrong except them. I think I'll have a lie in and not bother voting on the day then at least whatever happens it won't have been my fault - or will it? Geoff

My vote is already in the post.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

Whether you are in the stay or in the leave camp, all can agree the the EU must change.
However,
the EU is nor a democracy
The EU will not change , Cameron's attempts have shown that
The Franco German alliance have too much invested in the Unites States of Europe to change direction
If there will be no substantive change in EU policy and embers have little or no democratic right to insist on it
Then we should leave
There is bound to be some period of uncertainty, but nowhere near the catastrophe that is being suggested

Sorry about the spelling above , auto spell checker again
I would put my leave vote on the poll, but can't semi to access it from my iPad

Just saw a statistic that Germany gets like 84% of the EUs trade surplus - honestly i thought it was less......

Sorry it is only in german....