as do I in Italy spain france and uk just saying if youi live abroad 50 - 52 weeks a year and your proberly retired don't own a business in uk I don't resonally see why your even bothered just my views sorry if it offends 1937 model y hot rod 1000bhp rover75 v8 vincert blackshadow plus several boats and other toyz ! ford f150 raptor Mercedes e class convertible jaguar f pace

I too have thought long and hard on the issue and decided I ain't clever enough to understand all the arguments put forward from both sides. Things I can reconcile are:

1. both sides cant be right.
2. without a doubt there is copious amounts of bullsh*t, exaggeration and self serving prose from both sides - I just cant separate that from the truth
3. very few voters in any election truly have a grasp and deep understanding of the consequences of their vote
4. if you don't vote you cant moan, and if you don't vote you should be ashamed.

It is therefore my intention to vote based on my core concern which I can see with each European Court ruling i.e... the almost total dilution of our ability to govern ourselves as we should be able to for the benefit of the indigenous British folk of this land.

The final straw for me came with Prisoners having the vote. That to me said volumes about the weakness of our Country as a direct result of being in the EU. 405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
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93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

I think it is interesting to hear from those outside the UK bubble, especially when you hear those that question the EU position in France and Germany etc.

I think the issue is largely when people such as Obama have been wheeled in to make a political statement as though it is fact and in the UK's interest. In truth he is retiring soon and has no real control on anything and anything he does say is in the American interests first. The Americans as with many nations would never ever let their sovereignty pass to a foreign power in the first place.

It is just a shame that our UK elected leaders do not seem to have any confidence in themselves to do the job they were elected to do. Amazing that a PM talks down his own nation and also admits he could not cope in the event of a Brexit. Seems to remind me of Chamberlain appeaser vs Churchill moral pride.

If our Government really want to to stay in the EU they might as well close down the Houses of Parliament as it has no further democratic purpose and is a financial drain on everyone. Doubt any MPs will admit to it though leading to far too much middle and upper management and higher taxes. Tom

Current Drive
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Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

Last edited by Flashman on 16th May 2016 4:58pm. Edited 1 time in total

boatsandy1966 wrote:

as do I in Italy spain france and uk just saying if youi live abroad 50 - 52 weeks a year and your proberly retired don't own a business in uk I don't resonally see why your even bothered just my views sorry if it offends

No offence taken. I am bothered because it affects us. so are you going to vote in the uk because you can but want any benifets from living in france ?? if france voted to get rid of british ex pats how would you feel ? I don't think ex pats whom live abroad full time should vote at all in uk unless you spend £ in country or pay taxes in uk




/ 1937 model y hot rod 1000bhp rover75 v8 vincert blackshadow plus several boats and other toyz ! ford f150 raptor Mercedes e class convertible jaguar f pace

I think you are getting a bit confused. I pay income tax in the UK even though I live in France. It is part of the Convention on Double Taxation.

I also spend money in the UK. So I believe I conform to your requirements - "unless you spend £ in country or pay taxes in uk " John
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2005 TD6 Java Black Vogue - Written off!!
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2003 Discovery TD5 Auto, Nanocom Evolution - gone to a new home!
MasseyFerguson 152 - No electronics!! - Sold

Churchill was an advocate of a united Europe, but he did not want the UK inside it. He fully believed that the UK should continue with its global outlook. He ultimately wanted France and Germany to be linked to prevent further chances of another war. France then ended up pushing its own agenda to get other countries within the EU to pay for its prohibitive CAP policy that the French economy alone could not afford. Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

Last edited by Flashman on 16th May 2016 8:24pm. Edited 1 time in total

gregdav wrote:

my biggest concern is human rights, from a very right wing government,

Not sure this follows entirely. We do have quite a right wing government at present, but not what I would describe as "very right". As far as "human rights" goes, that is not a matter of left and right (strong state left vs free market right) but of authoritarianism. Besides which, the ECHR is not part of the EU anyway.

ebajema wrote:

The vote needs a third option, Stay and Change.

I think that's already accepted as the second option, TBH! As far as I'm concerned, the extent to which change is needed is that of abolition, and always would be.

Whatever the EU is trying to achieve, I simply object to it. If it is promoting free trade, it's a paradox. If it is some kind of betterment of the human race, there is no such thing. If it is to keep peace, it makes no difference. If it is to protect the environment and tackle climate change, there is good reason to suggest that it can't be done. To all these things, it is unfortunately or not, entirely superficial.

If it is to generate a monopoly for politicians and business and to fuel the egos of socialist egalitarians and militant environmentalists, yes, that's what it does, and like heck, I would like to stop it... Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

What a pity that these forum results will not be the outcome of the real one.

Oh; and I see I got the right to an opinion here according to the rules of some weardminds, I recently spend 37 K GBP in your country buying another classic.

@ lost for words. Of course it follows. If EU is bound by human rights then so is uk. If brexit then uk makes it's own rules to whatever they choose. And on the last 6 yrs of discrimination, bullying public, and IBS with his wielding axe then, I submit my case.
Of course when your in a minority, then it won't matter to you, and I'm used to the rolling eyes when disability is mentioned.
FYI , we have personally lost a lot of money over the last 6 yrs, this year being the worst. Carry on with IBS and his cronies if you like, but for me, he's a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Our foreign friends, keep your ideas coming, the more we know and discuss the EU, the more we may try to understand. I value your opinions

The UK is governed by the ECHR either in or out of the EU. It is not part of the EU itself in any way and leaving the EU won't change that. Whether or not I agree with it's principles or not, is of course another discussion, but if it's something you support, then rest assured, its authority over us will not be changed by leaving the EU.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

https://www.facebook.com/leaveeuofficial/videos/946139178817657/ Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
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For us it's not another discussion. ECHR EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS. IF we are not part of the union then we are not part of the legislation.
I am a true brit and adore my country and all it stands for. I believe most of us are some of the best people in the world.
I would love to see this country in control of its self, but with the current regime on all sides, I see a load of takers, looking forward to their pensions paid by us the tax payer. How can a politician have a wage rise when they are cutting everyone else to the bone.
How can they justify spending in excess of £50 billion on a railway not a lot of people will use.
All in the name of austerity.
I don't think a lot will change either way.
thanks everyone for a great debate so far. It's good to hear all sides from ALL PEOPLE.
Greg.

But arguing for remain by saying our current politicians would not be able to cope with Brexit is nuts. Let's get out and get in a better Government that can deal with a nation state.

The EU is deliberately bribing, diluting and weakening leadership in all its regional states (part of the long term plan). The only way for us to possibly get a better government is to put them to the test with a Brexit. Then any performance/economic/mismanagement issues are glaringly obvious to all, and the PM won't have a cushy job in Brussels if he gets voted out, so in theory it puts more pressure on the Government to do the job they are actually employed to do in the first place. Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

OK, there are some different factors in here. You are refering to the left-right spectrum, and yes, human rights are left, but left isn't human rights, if you see what I mean. As far as corruption goes, the best thing we can do is to enable ourselves to focus on our own MPs - the EU has become a major distraction for the electorate, so leaving can help us to reduce this. HS2 - yes, I could go on for ages about its flaws, though to claim no-one will use it is not fair, because something is needed to tackle the capacity issue. Communications are the most important factor in speeding up markets, making them smoother and more efficient, and a stronger market means more money for everyone.

Quote:

IF we are not part of the union then we are not part of the legislation.

I think you haven't quite grasped what I'm saying re the ECHR though. The above statement is not correct. The ECHR is not like the ECJ; is a separate entity which we would still be part of if we leave the EU.

I'm not sure, however, where human rights come into your comments on disability benefits and government spending? It is in all of our interests to have a strong economy and to have our affairs controlled directly by those we elect. If the EU causes problems in this regard, it isn't going to help us have money to spend on these things. Ultimately, the EU is a very mixed bag of neoliberalism and socialism; the trouble is, those two things are opposites, which goes to show that it only works for the people inside it. It allows/has allowed businesses and politicians to get their foot in the door and then shut it behind them.

If we shake it up, it will be better for everyone. If you see the MPs as takers, then why on earth would you consider the EU to be better? To hand back control to our own MPs is to put it back in our own hands as well. If we want to have influence over our own MPs we need to stop putting them down and get behind them instead. Power goes from the bottom up, not the other way around.

 Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
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