In the long term 20 years plus maybe we'll be better off and maybe we wont. In the next 10 years, if we leave, the Uk economy will suffer badly - guaranteed. I don't trust the motives of any of the leave politicians.

STAY Put two Rhodeasian Ridgebacks in a Range Rover and pretty soon it's their Ridge Rover.

RidgeRover. +1.
STAY.

I've thought long and hard on this issue as it is an important one and we all should vote. I am for leave for the simple reason of sovereign law if we don't have control over our own laws then all other arguments are irrelevant as they can be overturned by Brussels. There are risks on both sides but they have had 40 years to reform and look at the result so a change is good. "On first name terms with my local Dealer......now."

'61 Plate 5.0SC Autobiography - in Black ——— Gone
'53 plate 4.4V8 Vogue Bonatti Grey inside and out. ----- Gone

Honestly i would like Germany to leave the EU - there would be less stupid EU laws to apply here BUT on the downside everything would become more expensive and it would cost us a fortune !

I think those 21 billions over the next years that would cost a *Brexit* to you islanders would do you more harm than us staying in the EU - so do me a favour and stay

PS. And NO i don't agree with Dr. Merkel for her stupid refugees politic (we got now officially 800.000 that have come to our country last year) cause i have to pay this with my hard earned cash/42% of income tax! - i don't even mention what it costs to our health system and NO i don't agree to most of the stupid EU laws.  All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

2023 FFRR L460
2021 AM new Vantage

Stay

In any democracy there will always be stupid stuff that you don't agree with - if we leave, then there will still be laws, taxes etc that regions think aren't fair, so then you break up the UK, then give even more to the regions - where does it stop ?

Do you think the USA would benefit from breaking up & devolving all the power to the states - make them all independent & self governing ?

It can stop when the stupid laws are made by our own politicians not someone else's. We shouldn't tolerate any laws we disagree with anyway - if we sit back and accept nonsense we can only expect more of it. It's more than just that though; there's immigration and the economy that can both benefit from leaving.

RidgeRover wrote:

In the long term 20 years plus maybe we'll be better off and maybe we wont. In the next 10 years, if we leave, the Uk economy will suffer badly - guaranteed.

I don't trust the motives of any of the leave politicians.

Rosco wrote:

We all know we would be better out of the EU but not with the politicians we currently have, I personally can see no way out of the mire in my lifetime

At least half of the benefits of leaving will be self enacting so we have a good start, at least.

XXXAngelXXX wrote:

Honestly i would like Germany to leave the EU - there would be less stupid EU laws to apply here BUT on the downside everything would become more expensive and it would cost us a fortune !

You have a trading surplus though, whereas we have a trading defecit, so it is better for us to take the lower prices of the world market than the inflated EU ones.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

Eirik34 Norway has a lot of oil. It's probably much more viable outside the EU, than in it.

Angel

With with regard to the advice NOT to sign trade deals. I bought my FFRR in the USA. I had to import it to Canada. Customs needed to check where it was built. UK=duty! If it had been made in a NAFTA country (like all the VWs we get) they're be no duty and it's cheaper. When car A is more expensive than B because of luxury or features, fine. If car A is more expensive just because of taxes, people will buy car B.

Last edited by RR2008HSE on 15th May 2016 8:54pm. Edited 1 time in total

Despite the possible implications to the European side of my business I'm out.

Simply I want to live in a Britain that is a democracy.

Not a soviet style of a super federal Europe.

Just my ha peth worth.

 All things transport - big or small, UK or planetwide.
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I thing leaving the EU is economic suicide for Britain. In this day and age you need to be part of large economic blocks otherwise you're screwed, that is why everybody is creating these blocks because it allows them to sell their products at lower prices and buy at lower prices.

It sounds great renegotiating but you'll find that you will be working on that for a decade or so and by that time all benefits have long gone.

Britian is no longer the empire it was (nor are the Netherlands the trade nation they were that kicked your butt by the way). The UK simply is not big enough economically to sustain themselves in todays global market.

I do agree the EU needs some work but being out of it is going to cost you dearly.

And sovereignity is BS anyway, you will still have to comply with lots of stuff if you want to trade with other countries with the only differences is, they do it at lower cost than you. No country in this day and age is completely sovereign anymore.

Don't forget that Oil and Gas income is not going to be there for much longer relatively speaking (not for the UK nor for Norway etc.) and it is helping to prop up your budget. If it goes, what then ???

Any country on their own is struggling or will be on the next few decades where the total economic landscape is changing and changing rapidly with climate change, refugee crises, energy generation changes etc. etc. Within an economic block you can make a fist, outside it you can just shout into the storm and nobody cares............. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

[quote="Rosco"]Lostforwords, agree wholeheartedly, but WHO is going to manage this?? [/v

ME!

Vote for ME as Dictat.......... Oops, sorry, meant to say PM. Got enemies? Good, you have stood up for something in your life.

Never regret growing old, it is a privilege denied to many.

The oft quoted comment is:
"We are better in a strong position at the heart of Europe, than out!"
The problem is, we are neither. We are not at the heart of Europe, nor do we have a strong voice.

Without our contributions I believe the European Union will collapse. Who will take over the deficit when our funds are withdrawn? Germany may well follow us, the EU is no longer a favourite after Merkle's disastrous immigration policy.

The accumulating costs of supporting Greece and the other struggling economies will cripple any future growth.

We are the fifth largest economy in the world, people will be happy to trade with us! Trade deals will be quicker, not slower. We will not have to ratify every single detail with 20-odd other states!

Leave. Got enemies? Good, you have stood up for something in your life.

Never regret growing old, it is a privilege denied to many.

RR2008HSE wrote:

With with regard to the advice NOT to sign trade deals. I bought my FFRR in the USA. I had to import it to Canada. Customs needed to check where it was built. UK=duty! If it had been made in a NAFTA country (like all the VWs we get) they're be no duty and it's cheaper. When car A is more expensive than B because of luxury or features, fine. If car A is more expensive just because of taxes, people will buy car B.

We could leave and abandon our tariffs completely, or at least choose to do so where it is in our interest to. That means we don't increase our prices with the taxes on our imports, and exporting is more cost effective. Any other country wishing to apply tax to imports from the UK can choose to do so as it wishes and as suits it. Taxes applied at the receiving end are not our problem - it is not in the interest of the country at the receiving end to thwart all trade with us. If it suits us, we can export our vehicles tax free, and if it suits you, you can import our vehicles tax free; if it doesn't suit either of us to do so, then why would we want a free trade deal either?

Tariffs aren't barriers to trade but simply something that a country can use as it suits it. If every country taxed heavily on products, no-one would buy them, so tariffs are part of the market a bit like any other product. The lack of taxes in the EU just inflates the prices we have to pay.

ebajema wrote:

I thing leaving the EU is economic suicide for Britain. In this day and age you need to be part of large economic blocks otherwise you're screwed, that is why everybody is creating these blocks because it allows them to sell their products at lower prices and buy at lower prices.

Britian is no longer the empire it was (nor are the Netherlands the trade nation they were that kicked your butt by the way). The UK simply is not big enough economically to sustain themselves in todays global market.

It doesn't work like that at all though. As you say, we are a small country, therefore, we can't influence the markets either in or out of a trading block, so all we can do is do what we do well and position ourselves in the best market to do so. Whether we survive is down to our abilities to produce good products and services that people want. We are the 5th largest national economy in the world, BTW...

If you are a large country like the USA or China, it is beneficial to enter such blocks, but for a small country like the UK with a trading defecit, it is not helpful. The people wanting these blocks to happen are the big guys who can monopolise, and we have to fight them or lose out, not give into them. It is with good reason that the EU wants us in, because they sell us loads of their stuff.

Only about 9% of our GDP is down to the EU, so if we leave, we can be free from all the expensive regulations for the other 91% of our GDP, pay lower world prices for our imports, and ditch the other EU stuff like open immigration and CAP.

The overall idea of the EU, was to promote free trade (aside from the political side of it). In the ideal world, the whole world would trade freely withh each other, but inequality means that doesn't happen - it is not in everyone's interest - so tariffs exist to the benefit of the country that chooses to use them or not, allowing them to fight their corner in the world.

 Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
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The EEC as it was originally , i.e. the trading economic community, well that was OK. It essentially removed the need for complex tables of varying import duties and taxes.

However, the single currency is absolutely not OK. It was conceived to become large enough so as to depose the US Dollar from its position of being the de-facto global benchmark, it failed miserably at doing that, and along the way it destroyed at least 4 national economies.

When an individual country has no control over the exchange rate of its own currency a state of imbalance is created as we saw with Portugal, Spain, Italy, Ireland and Greece. However, when a country does have control, and it can respond to market changes in a meaningful way their economy will flourish. But to force a high value, fixed currency on them does the exact opposite. Greece, as an example, suddenly found themselves with a high value currency, much higher than the Drachma, minimum wage legislation in the Eurozone which pushed up employer's costs. Then came massive inflation as a direct result, their exports (most tourism) started to look expensive and declined in volume causing a very large trade deficit. On it went until several bail-outs were needed and vast hardship is now being caused to ordinary people.

So for me, it has to be leave. The whole Euro currency thing is immoral and should die a natural death. As for the EU as a whole, why would we not continue to trade as we are? If Brussels sees fit to impose taxes and tariffs as some kind of churlish tit-for-tat response I feel that probably demonstrates exactly why we would not want to be party to it. As for Mr "You'll go to the back of the queue" who, incidentally, shares the whole Euro dream and who has presided over a financial mess that makes the EU look positively angelic, well who cares? Again, we import more from the USA than we export to it. Their loss. I do hate that man with a passion, especially all his thinly veiled threats. The USA will be better off once he's gone.

If, on the other hand, the words of all these "stay" politicians are true, well they have nothing to fear from us leaving do they? Trade will continue as before, the EU will still gain from the general support of the UK, our security services will collaborate as before, so how are they any worse off? Oh, that'll be the millions we give them every day, the same millions which are used to support failing economies, failing because of their ridiculous insistence on a single currency, a single set of laws and the natural imbalance that creates. That may well be just a line on a balance sheet in the EU but it affects real people's lives, real people who are powerless to do anything about it and I cannot vote to continue the injustice.

Alistair wrote:

Stay

In any democracy there will always be stupid stuff that you don't agree with - if we leave, then there will still be laws, taxes etc that regions think aren't fair, so then you break up the UK, then give even more to the regions - where does it stop ?

Do you think the USA would benefit from breaking up & devolving all the power to the states - make them all independent & self governing ?

I think if the outs win we will have a destabilised government, they haven't got much of a majority as it is.
we may have a few years of internal fighting.
my biggest concern is human rights, from a very right wing government, having been on the receiving end for the last 6 years, in the name of "AUSTERITY".
There won't be any where to go to complain, as a glass ceiling would be in place.
sorry but it's not all about the economy, and of course eventually , there will be a world council, you won't stop that.