So, compelling arguments please as to why we should stay or leave the EU please...

I've made my vote and tipped it to 100%!

Why leave? As a good friend of mine said, we just need a change!

Are the masses educated enough To make this a public vote? Of course not!

It would be great to hear a debate based on honest values and opinions rather than the drivel which is pitched on both side of the debate.

God help us either way I'm afraid....

Pete beat you to it Craig,

http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic37492.html ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
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This is the same as Scotland going independent, yes it could work to everyones advantage but not a hope in hell of it in reality as we have nobody to run it, thats the issue for me, I cant think of a current politician who I would be happy with running 'my company' because thats what it is, they make Philip Green look like Mother Teresa

Advice from a ffrr owner living in Norway, which is NOT part of the EU: You should stay in EU, there is a lot of impractical issues and hurdles when being isolated like we in Norway are. Exotic - yes, but very costly and not advisable on a daily basis in a global world.

Eirik, trust me Norway would be if it was in the EU

We have all the downsides through the EEA deal; all the costs to other EU countries - without any influence. But topped with VAT on all imports, crazy high car taxes, import duties on a lot of goods and foods.... Being part of EU wouldn't take away our fantastic fjords and mountains, it would just make our daily life simpler and less costly.

Eirik. have a read of this;
http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/what-w...eu-entail/

I hardly know where to start with arguing for leaving/against staying in.

So many gripes about the EU as an institution, where to start?

It doesn't matter what the elected MEPs vote because the unelected, appointed bureaucrats have the final say so there is no democracy....the electorate cannot vote out the actual rulers......

The EU is currently trying to negotiate the Transatlantic Trade & Industry Partnership with the U.S.
One of the many, many things wrong about this shambles is the suppression of key information like the advice to member states to set aside funds to deal with an expected leap in unemployment when the treaty is ratified.

Mr 'You'll Go To The Back Of The Queue" REALLY wants this treaty as any American would because it will give them unprecedented say over what we make, what we sell and to whom we sell and if we don't like the thought of producing something banned by the FDA (for example) in America, a member state can be sued by an American company for refusing. And if that isn't bad enough, we would have to pay the EU to stand up for us because we would not be allowed to act independently.

The treaty would also give private companies free access to the NHS......I'm not a fan of any of the political parties or politicians but no wonder Mr C and co are creaming their collective trousers over the prospect of this becoming reality which is why it is all being conducted very quietly and information is not published officially.

An example of how the points from my first remark relate to the second
There are many debates and reports on TTIP that have leaked and they makes the blood run cold.

Basically, we should leave because -

- we'd get proper sovereignty and democracy which is priceless.
- we can better hold our own MPs to account without them fobbing stuff off to the EU. It would be a well needed kick up the @rse for our politicians and economists, who would prefer to rest on their laurels by staying in.
- we can choose to support our farmers by the methods they wish.
- we can ensure that our NHS won't be undermined by the TTIP arrangement.
- we can ensure the supremacy of our own laws, courts and police force.
- we can ditch the protectionist customs union and trade at lower world prices - we buy more than we sell so this is in our interest. We'd actually be better off if we don't sign any trade agreements.
- we can better exploit the goods and services that we are good at as a country, not those which the EU as a whole is favourable to.
- we can create a freer market that doesn't favour large organisations and those with political status over small businesses.
- we can control immigration as we wish, taking pressure off our schools and hospitals and providing a level playing field for skilled immigrants to come to Britain from all around the world.
- we can still take part in joint scientific projects and intelligence sharing.
- we can share our common interests with our allies without petty bickering over our small differences.

Been through it all on Disco3 and come under all the fire so I'm not going into it further.

 Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
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Is that a yes or no GLM

Lostforwords, agree wholeheartedly, but WHO is going to manage this??

Have faith. Our MPs will have no choice but to do so if we leave. They may seem hopelessly indifferent to the electorate's wishes, but there is a limit and they still have to tow the line in the end. We can only get as good as we expect from them, so let's get our expectations up.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
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Rosco wrote:

Is that a yes or no GLM

As sir Humphrey Appleby would say, "It's a balanced view." NOT.

We all know we would be better out of the EU but not with the politicians we currently have, I personally can see no way out of the mire in my lifetime