Pete, Later on, when you are having your knee joint done, you might want to 'go down' clutching your new torx sockets, and some WD40 you don't want them stripping the heads on your knee!
Good luck on both issues Pete.

Good luck at the hospital Pete. Also, top tip. Those Makita impact screwdriver drill thingies......Excellent at getting tight screws out without the demolition of the head.

Good luck at hospital

Good Luck & get better . enjoy your Easter break !! Jaybear

2002 V8 , premier edition , 19" alloys ,

Good luck pete.
watching in awe at this great thread.

Excellent thread, Pete!

All the best for a quick recovery and some QT next week.  Si. <This is my name.

I eat rat poison.

A man ain't truly been insulted until he stands buck naked in front of a woman and she didn't even notice. Or care.

Yes I agree this is a great thread.
just out of curiosity are you looking for anything specific in this
rebuild, I.e worn cogs, bearings etc.
Or is it the TC your looking at to find your problem?
Gary

Thank you all for your kind words and wishes, today's appointment is a consultation with a plastic surgeon for a nose job... no... it's for a Lipoma on my right arm, they are deciding if I have to go under the knife again and get it removed, it's not doing me any harm but it is quite big so may have to have it removed.... They can't do it under a local as they recon it would still hurt...!!!

Back to the box....

The bolts I knackered getting off seem to have been done up to a ridiculous torque, one of the bolts that holds the transfer box on was excessively tight as well, sods law it was one of them that you can only get a spanner on and I bent the spanner and it still wouldn't come off... had to get at it with a chisel in the end...

Seems whoever put it together before didn't torque the bolts up correctly, some that held in the valve body were barely tight, others were very tight!!!

It does appear to have a lot of crud inside it so I'm hoping a good strip and rebuild will sort it, AFAIK the 1st to 2nd clonk is a pressure issue, exactly where I don't know, the slurring from 2nd to 3rd could be pressure or could be worm clutch plates. It could be crud in the valve body preventing it working as it should or a damaged seal inside the box... doesn't appear to be the "usual" radial bearing and seal damage as when it trips into failsafe it locks in 4th gear and not 5th....

The FF has done 132,000 miles, I've done 16,000 and the last owner did 10,000 in the year he had it and he didn't have the box done so I don't know how long ago or for what reason the box was done, I imagine it was a recon box from a cheap place that did half a job... one of the reasons I want to do it myself, then I know it's been done right and should last... Subsequently I don't know how old the TC is, it seems to work fine, locks up when it should and doesn't suffer from the "cattle grid" problem but it doesn't seem worth sticking it back in as they do wear and as it had red oil in it when I bought it (the wrong stuff) then it could have premature wear...

Just hoping the rest of the box comes apart OK, I haven't ordered the overhaul kit yet as I was waiting to see if I need to order anything else when it's stripped, should find out middle of next week.... (unless they decide to chop my arm up as that's going to be next Tuesday!!!)

Overhaul kit....



RRPhil I've sent you a PM with postage details of the valve body... cheers... Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

If you went back 20 years the only place you would find a 'Torx' would be on a Renault or citroen.I used to curse the damn things back then and am sure am not the only person to question why they seem to be everywhere now.I try and change them to hexagon heads where I can now!

yep, know what you mean, I suppose they are easier for robots to put together...

Been away over the weekend, got an hour on it tonight....

RRPhil, sorry for all the questions....

First job was to loosen the F brake screws with my new snapon torx bits...

Came out with no trouble with the rattle gun, luckily these bolts are 8.8 ones so their hardened... loosened them all off then made them finger tight..



Turned the box over and removed all the bolts holding the bellhousing and oil pump...



Went to remove the pressure springs for the C clutch and noticed one of the retaining rings was not in it's groove (bottom one in pic) but wedged in sideways... don't know if it's significant or not... removed the springs but then can't see a way to remove the sealing sleeves... Phil, do these have to come out to remove the C clutch??? I think they do....



Then remove the A and B clutches..



Stripped them down and laid them out to check for wear...



The clutch plates look worn to me, what do you recon Phil, do you know how thick new ones are...???





Measured the plates...

B clutch was 1.53mm



A clutch was 1.49mm



One more question Phil, do I have to strip these further...??





Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Pete,

Your valve block arrived today.

I noticed that one of the solenoid connectors was damaged so I began with a quick electrical check before I start to dismantle the blocks.

Click image to enlarge

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Haylands wrote:

Went to remove the pressure springs for the C clutch and noticed one of the retaining rings was not in it's groove (bottom one in pic) but wedged in sideways... don't know if it's significant or not... removed the springs but then can't see a way to remove the sealing sleeves... Phil, do these have to come out to remove the C clutch??? I think they do....



Pete,

There aren’t any grooves for these circlips to snap into – they just rely on friction against the bore. The springs are only there to discourage the rubber jump tubes from working their way downwards due to gravity so the position of the circlips/compression of the springs isn’t critical - but ideally they should be around 4mm deep from the valve block face :

Click image to enlarge

Both rubber jump tubes have to be removed before the D/E brake drum can be removed from the casing as they sit in, and seal against, the machined spot faces in the drum :

Click image to enlarge

I made up this tool just for the purpose of extracting the tubes :

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Phil

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Haylands wrote:

The clutch plates look worn to me, what do you recon Phil, do you know how thick new ones are...???





Measured the plates...

B clutch was 1.53mm



A clutch was 1.49mm



Pete,

Regarding friction plates for the clutches/brakes, there are three sizes (diameters) used in the 5HP24 for the six clutches/brakes :

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

and, when new, the thickness of the A & C plates is 1.56-1.58mm, the B,D & E plates 1.62-1.65mm and the F-brake plates are similar thickness to the A & C plates. New plates are a brown colour so the black colouration does indicate that they’ve been working hard. You sometimes find corresponding heat spots on the steel plates.

Phil

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Haylands wrote:

One more question Phil, do I have to strip these further...??





Ideally, yes. You need to compress the clutch return springs to remove the retaining clips which then allows you to strip apart the piston assemblies to give you access to the piston seals – replacements of which you’ll find in the seal/gasket kit.

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Phil

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Thanks for that Phil, makes sense, am I right in thinking the EDS 5 fault could cause the hard 1st to 2nd change, it appears to only pulse in 2nd... and the EDS 2 could effect the 2nd - 3rd change??

I've now stripped the rest of the box and I have to say it's all in pretty poor condition



The rest of the clutches are thinner than the two above, nearly all of the clutch plates are showing radial grooves, there are also marks on the corresponding steel plates. Found two broken "O" rings here



Most of the radial bearings seem worn, they do not feel smooth when rotating them, most bearing surfaces on the shafts are showing radial grooves than you can feel with your finger nail...



There are some heavy marks on this clutch drum...



There are tool marks all over the place and the oil feed pipe to clutch C has been hammered back in with a metal hammer and dented...

There are pockets of grit and metal pieces in most of the nooks and crannies, it looks like it's been assembled with less than any care by someone who has done it on the floor in a particularly filthy garage.

It seems to have run very hot as all the rubber seals are hard and brittle and those that weren't broken already fall apart with the slightest provocation....

I'm thinking that maybe this box is not worth rebuilding as it would cost too much to change all the bits that are worn, and it would still have damage to various pieces... Maybe I would be better off finding a second hand box and giving that the once over before refitting...???

What do you think Phil..?? or any one else..??

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-