Hi and help please.

Back in February my 2007 TDV8 suddenly for no apparent reason threw up an engine fault warning but no light, HDC warning with light and transmission restricted gears warning and went into limp home mode. I'd never experienced limp home mode before and think it is positively evil and probably the most dangerous thing i've ever encountered in a motor vehicle. I pulled into a car park and switched the engine off. It started a minute later and all was fine and had no further trouble. About six weeks ago I fitted one of the Westfalia toolbars with the wiring loom that plugs into the back.

A couple of weeks later for no apparent reason it repeated the trick of going into engine management fault, HDC fault, and the HDC light came on but not the engine management light and it restricted the range of gears. This happened several times and when I checked it that night my battery was at 12.2 V. As the battery appeared to be the original I went and bought a brand-new heavy duty battery of the correct size and type with a five year warranty and fitted it. That seemed to cure the problem.

A few days later it started over again and got progressively worse I.e. more frequent. I left it for the day, tried to check the alternator drive belt tension which appears to be mission impossible without taking the car to bits and then I had the bright idea of getting my hands on the land rover ids diagnostics tester. As there appeared to be quite a lot of faults recorded all over the place and some were historic I cleared the faults. I started the car several times and it still went into limp home mode. The system failed to record any fault codes. I then started it and turned the steering hard to the left then hard to the right switched it off started it again and everything cleared.

I took it on a run for about five or 6 miles and it displayed all three faults about three or four times but they cleared each time I restarted the engine. I then went up a very steep hill and for the first time ever I experienced misfiring in a diesel. After that the car then went into limp home mode to the point where I didn't think I would get home as I had no power to pull out of junctions or climb any kind of gradient.

When I measured the battery voltage yesterday it was at 12.4 volts but it dropped about 10 1/2 volts when cranking and when the engine was running it came back up to about 13 volts. This did not particularly strike me as conclusive proof of the alternator failing.

Last night I discovered how to access the on-board diagnostics and went out to the car today and made a video of what I found.


I also read somewhere that if the relay involved with the towbar is faulty it can produce the kind of faults I'm describing. My main questions are and I accept I need to try running with the toolbar unplugged but have not yet done so, is it likely to be the towbar relay?

If it's definitely the alternator, whilst I've seen a couple of reports of people changing them, are there any definitive instructions on the best way of changing the alternator? Some people seem to think that access through the wheelwell is necessary, others indicate that doesn't help at all. Apparently it is necessary to remove the hoses but it is not necessary to remove the radiators? Can anyone please confirm if this is correct?

Thanks in advance for any assistance. Rehab is for quitters!!!

RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Java Black *
RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Zermatt silver *
RR 2000 P38 4.6 Met red *
Mercedes 300TE 4-Matic *
Jaguar 420 (1969) *
Nissan 300Z
Citroen XM 2.5TD X 6
Bentley Continental R
Hydrocon Highlander
Hydrocon Hamilton
Hydrocon Huntly
Am told the ones with a * are to be offered for sale! 😳

Departed
LR 1992 110 2.5TD
RR 2000 Holland & Holland 4.6 LPG
RR 4.2 Supercharged with LPG, Vogue SE 2007 Buckingham Blue
RR 2002 4.4 V8 Zambesi Silver

Alternator is all done.from the front. Hardest part of the job is getting the fan off

Thanks Mikey. You say the front rather than the top or underneath. Are you suggesting taking the front end off? I did consider that might be easier but have never done it. Is the fan a special spanner as on the LR 110s? I assume its a left hand thread?

Am still not convinced its the alternator. Am going to take some more readings with both the diagnostic screen in tandem with my dmm once I unplug the towbar.

Thanks again. Rehab is for quitters!!!

RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Java Black *
RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Zermatt silver *
RR 2000 P38 4.6 Met red *
Mercedes 300TE 4-Matic *
Jaguar 420 (1969) *
Nissan 300Z
Citroen XM 2.5TD X 6
Bentley Continental R
Hydrocon Highlander
Hydrocon Hamilton
Hydrocon Huntly
Am told the ones with a * are to be offered for sale! 😳

Departed
LR 1992 110 2.5TD
RR 2000 Holland & Holland 4.6 LPG
RR 4.2 Supercharged with LPG, Vogue SE 2007 Buckingham Blue
RR 2002 4.4 V8 Zambesi Silver

On a TDV8 you do need to remove coolant pipes, so draining the coolant is required

Hi Dijit

I did my alternator earlier this year and found I needed to go in through the wheel arch to remove a nut that held the air pipe to the turbo in place. As I couldn't get the alternator out without moving the pipe about 1/2 inch which required the pipe to be removed from its stay.

You need to go down the front of the engine from the top and a vc spanner is required to get the fan off 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

Thanks Andy. Two questions, first what were the symptoms and how did you conclude it was the alternator? I ask as I cannot believe an alternator which has failed yet puts out 14V. Secondly just how bad is it to change?

Thanks again. Rehab is for quitters!!!

RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Java Black *
RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Zermatt silver *
RR 2000 P38 4.6 Met red *
Mercedes 300TE 4-Matic *
Jaguar 420 (1969) *
Nissan 300Z
Citroen XM 2.5TD X 6
Bentley Continental R
Hydrocon Highlander
Hydrocon Hamilton
Hydrocon Huntly
Am told the ones with a * are to be offered for sale! 😳

Departed
LR 1992 110 2.5TD
RR 2000 Holland & Holland 4.6 LPG
RR 4.2 Supercharged with LPG, Vogue SE 2007 Buckingham Blue
RR 2002 4.4 V8 Zambesi Silver

One of the bearings failed on my alternator, it was still charging at 14 volts but howled like a banshee, so had to be swapped out before the bearing gave up.

I didn't find it too difficult, there are some good instructions on the forum. You need to be competent with a set of spanners, have a good socket set, a few ring spanners and a special tool for removing the hose slips (pliers can be used but not easily). it took me about 3 hours to get all the coolant pipes out of the way and an hour to work out how to get the alternator out. Getting the alternator to come out from between the engine block and the turbo air pipe was the hardest bit, but it does come out. Once I had the new alternator in it took me about 4 hours to get everything back together. getting the cables back on to the alternator can be a little tricky. 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

Andy, again my thanks. AFAIK the bearings are fine in that they are not whining or rumbling.
I found two sets of instructions but both were a bit vague. Any idea what you referred too? If I end up swapping it I'm fine for tools except the hose clip pliers which I'll pick up.

Thanks for your clarification. Rehab is for quitters!!!

RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Java Black *
RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Zermatt silver *
RR 2000 P38 4.6 Met red *
Mercedes 300TE 4-Matic *
Jaguar 420 (1969) *
Nissan 300Z
Citroen XM 2.5TD X 6
Bentley Continental R
Hydrocon Highlander
Hydrocon Hamilton
Hydrocon Huntly
Am told the ones with a * are to be offered for sale! 😳

Departed
LR 1992 110 2.5TD
RR 2000 Holland & Holland 4.6 LPG
RR 4.2 Supercharged with LPG, Vogue SE 2007 Buckingham Blue
RR 2002 4.4 V8 Zambesi Silver

I used the instructions on the wiki, link below.

http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic23089-30.html 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

To answer my own question this is the progress made since posting.

Fault codes despite being cleared and battery being charged the fault persisted. With the help of another FFRR member we removed the top half of the fan shroud for better access to check the serpentine belt in case it was slack.
Well one thing led to another and we removed the alternator which was the original LR Denso unit.

Took it to an auto electrician yesterday who confirmed what we suspected. A blown diode.
My theory is with the blown diode when the revs dropped the alternator output and the battery drained back trying to motor the alternator.
So purchased a fully recon alternator from them with a 1 year warranty at a cost of £120 plus VAT. Will fit tomorrow and report back.

Incidentally everything bar one bolt was removed from the top i.e. above. The bolt was removed from below. Didn't drain the cooling system just removed two hoses at the top so lost only a little coolant.
Can confirm no need to remove o/s headlight, header tank, radiator, aluminium pipework or inner wheel arch liner. The worst and most time consuming part was taking off the heavy red power feed. You also need to remove the bracket fitted to the alternator. Fan was removed with a few whacks from an adjustable shifting spanner. The whacks shocked it from the lock position.

Hope these comments assist with answering some of the questions I had after reading the link Andy_J provided from http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic27004.html
Grateful thanks to Andy for his helpful responses. Rehab is for quitters!!!

RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Java Black *
RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Zermatt silver *
RR 2000 P38 4.6 Met red *
Mercedes 300TE 4-Matic *
Jaguar 420 (1969) *
Nissan 300Z
Citroen XM 2.5TD X 6
Bentley Continental R
Hydrocon Highlander
Hydrocon Hamilton
Hydrocon Huntly
Am told the ones with a * are to be offered for sale! 😳

Departed
LR 1992 110 2.5TD
RR 2000 Holland & Holland 4.6 LPG
RR 4.2 Supercharged with LPG, Vogue SE 2007 Buckingham Blue
RR 2002 4.4 V8 Zambesi Silver

Ok update and the news is not good.

Despite the new battery and alternator a few days ago I'm no further forward.
Car goes into the same fault modes unless the revs are above 1500 and less than 3000 as it triggers the following faults. The faults on the screen come up as engine fault, hdc fault, transmission fault and sometimes air suspension. Bizarre. The triggering at low revs one might assume was battery/alternator but battery level and alternator output are both spot on. The triggering above 3000 rpm suggests its not a lack of juice.
The IDS offers lost communication with instrument cluster control module and remote driver utility module as 100% relevance as well as a whole host of others.

What is the driver utility module? Any thoughts on the instrument cluster control module?

Incidentally the only two lights which come on are HDC and emergency brake assist.

This must be my 8th or 9th LR and its the first one to take the car off the road. The limp home mode is deadly. Won't go up hills and not enough power to pull out of junctions.

Anyone else experienced these? It's a late 2007 TDV8 Rehab is for quitters!!!

RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Java Black *
RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Zermatt silver *
RR 2000 P38 4.6 Met red *
Mercedes 300TE 4-Matic *
Jaguar 420 (1969) *
Nissan 300Z
Citroen XM 2.5TD X 6
Bentley Continental R
Hydrocon Highlander
Hydrocon Hamilton
Hydrocon Huntly
Am told the ones with a * are to be offered for sale! 😳

Departed
LR 1992 110 2.5TD
RR 2000 Holland & Holland 4.6 LPG
RR 4.2 Supercharged with LPG, Vogue SE 2007 Buckingham Blue
RR 2002 4.4 V8 Zambesi Silver

Having spent hours trawling there are a number of suggestions. One in particular is misaligned steering. Am I right to reject that as with the vehicle stationary in park the faults kick in seconds after starting up?
The theory as I understand it is the steering column sensor is slightly misaligned indicating to the ecu's that the vehicle is going through a bend. The wheel sensors do not sent corresponding signals whereby one would be going faster than the other wheel thereby confusing the ecu's and triggering damn near everything in sight.
I'm equally struggling to see how the brake switch could trigger automotive hell. The brake lights come and off with the pedal. I've tried starting it with the footbrake both on and off.

Do the two lights hdc and emergency brake assist point to anything or are they just victims of this crazy gremlin attack. Rehab is for quitters!!!

RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Java Black *
RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Zermatt silver *
RR 2000 P38 4.6 Met red *
Mercedes 300TE 4-Matic *
Jaguar 420 (1969) *
Nissan 300Z
Citroen XM 2.5TD X 6
Bentley Continental R
Hydrocon Highlander
Hydrocon Hamilton
Hydrocon Huntly
Am told the ones with a * are to be offered for sale! 😳

Departed
LR 1992 110 2.5TD
RR 2000 Holland & Holland 4.6 LPG
RR 4.2 Supercharged with LPG, Vogue SE 2007 Buckingham Blue
RR 2002 4.4 V8 Zambesi Silver

These are the readings off the JLR system firstly with the fault codes (DTCs) cleared then after the car is started.
Does this give any clues?
Does anyone know if the instruction manual for the JLR (Mongoose) diagnostics can be downloaded from anywhere?

Thanks

did you get to the bottom of it having the same issues

Yup. First check your battery. Below 12V it won't even crank. Next alternator. Basically you are looking for about 14.4V with the engine idling.
Now don't fall about laughing. If the above are ok the fault I found was low fuel. Allow me to explain. The tank is like two saddle bags either side of the transmission tunnel. Each has its own pump. One of the pumps regularly fail.
I found when the fuel got to about 60 miles remaining it went into limp home mode. Chuck some diesel into the tank, remove the valve cap from the shrader valve under the engine cover and whilst you hold the valve open, have someone turn the ignition on.. Have a rag as the fuel comes out pressurised. Reset the fault codes as soon as done these, you're good to go!
Tell us how low your fuel is when it goes into limp home mode.
Try it. Run the fuel low with a can handy. Reset fault codes and your problem is solved. Rehab is for quitters!!!

RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Java Black *
RR 2007 3.6 TDV8 Zermatt silver *
RR 2000 P38 4.6 Met red *
Mercedes 300TE 4-Matic *
Jaguar 420 (1969) *
Nissan 300Z
Citroen XM 2.5TD X 6
Bentley Continental R
Hydrocon Highlander
Hydrocon Hamilton
Hydrocon Huntly
Am told the ones with a * are to be offered for sale! 😳

Departed
LR 1992 110 2.5TD
RR 2000 Holland & Holland 4.6 LPG
RR 4.2 Supercharged with LPG, Vogue SE 2007 Buckingham Blue
RR 2002 4.4 V8 Zambesi Silver