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Prop



Member Since: 26 Sep 2012
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 675

United Kingdom 

Hopefully Duckworths can give you a price on the new hose you need.

Post #260316 19th May 2014 4:22pm
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nicedayforit



Member Since: 11 Jun 2011
Location: Beside the Solway
Posts: 3972

England 2004 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Giverny Green

Glad you found the possible leak but you may have a problem, namely dirt that has entered the ac system thro the open pipe ends. Dirt in an ac system is seriously not good.
As well as replacing the broken pipe the system needs professionally flushed to ensure any possible dirt contamination has been removed.
The system then needs thoroughly tested before filling with refrigerant and oil.
Hate to say it but I strongly recommend you take your car to an auto ac specialist. Thumbs Up

Post #260320 19th May 2014 4:39pm
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iphs



Member Since: 07 May 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 198

England 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Buckingham Blue

You are right and that is exactly what I intend to do.

Here is the offending pipework:

Post #260344 19th May 2014 6:11pm
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nicedayforit



Member Since: 11 Jun 2011
Location: Beside the Solway
Posts: 3972

England 2004 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Giverny Green

Thumbs Up

I don't know how that pipe came to be damaged like that, it looks as though it's be forcibly bent to get it out of the way for some reason.
Good luck with getting the system working.

Post #260364 19th May 2014 7:03pm
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Pfazz



Member Since: 07 Apr 2012
Location: Stalybridge, Cheshire.
Posts: 507

2019 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

Anybody with an AC leak needs to take it to an ACspecialist IMHO. Modern day refrigerants are made up of a blend of different gases which in turn have different size molecular structure and because of this a very tiny leak will let smaller gas molecules leak away leaving behind a residue of an unbalanced refrigerant gas. No amount of regassing and top up will put this blend back to what it was originally so it needs tackling by an expert in this field, vacuumed out, tested, repair to leaks and re gassed. Agueroooooooooo. 93-20
I swear you will never see anything like this ever again....watch it..drink it in.

Post #260432 20th May 2014 7:00am
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iphs



Member Since: 07 May 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 198

England 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Buckingham Blue

So I have replaced the damaged pipework, took it to a AirCon specialist who cleaned the system and did a vacuum test. All good with no leaks. Recharged the system, still not working. He didn't have time to do any more work on it this weekend so I need to take it back in a week or so. In the interim and to save a bob or two, is there anything I can check myself?

I have checked the fuses and all the lights on the dash work as they should. Rightly or wrongly I pressume that because there are no leaks, the condenser should be ok so i'm thinking compressor. I am right? If I am, is it repairable or should I just look to swap it? Or could it be something else completely, what else should I check first?

Any help much appreciated.

Post #261206 24th May 2014 2:46pm
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johnboyairey



Member Since: 11 Jan 2013
Location: surrey
Posts: 2032

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Westminster TDV8 Orkney Grey

i have the 4.4 v8 model. i needed a new pump i researched the actual pump and it was a denso. (3bolt) cant remember the model BUT i think it was the same as the td6. maybe 'denso 10s17c' once you have the delco model, you can find a supplier. i saw one supplied from poland for £220 outright sale, new not exchange. however i was even luckeir to find one from a bmw x5 v8 fitted as same engine ect. it was secondhand,(not recommended) but for the price it was a no brianer to prove my fault. fitted and all ok. what you need to know know after changing that hose, and regassed, is, have you got the pump 'engaging' without putting fingers/face near to the running engine. holding a torch shining to the front of the pump, you willl see a flat wheel disc on the front face, about 10mm thick, and 100mm accross, behind that is there is a thinner disc attached, of about 4mm and a small 2mm airgap behind it. this electrically clutches the spinning serpentine belt grooved wheel. Get someone (with engine running) to operate the aircon setting., ie the light to go on, and watch for the airgap to disapper. you might hear it 'click' and see the disc spin up. -then at least you are pumping the gas! (theretically) if not, (stop engine) check for the electrical connection on front of pump. bullet connector. a signal voltage comes through it to engage etc. perhaps connect the loom side to a 12v meter, and earth and see if command signal is switching. just found an ebay pic link
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RANGE-ROVER-L322...139wt_1190

new one here. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-X5-E-53-AIR-...2732wt_952

sorry if this all sounds basic and already tested etc.

Post #261653 27th May 2014 1:23pm
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iphs



Member Since: 07 May 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 198

England 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Buckingham Blue

Thank you johnboyairey Thumbs Up . That is not to basic at all. I need all the help I can get. I will check that out a little later (if the rain eases up)

Post #261675 27th May 2014 4:21pm
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iphs



Member Since: 07 May 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 198

England 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Buckingham Blue

I have had a look at the front of the aircon pump, can't see any seperate plates.

Here are a couple of pictures I managed to get. Am I looking at the right thing here and I am pretty sure I am as it is the same thing that the pipeworg is fitted to.







When the rain lets up I will try to get under the car and see if I can get a better view.

I have just had another look at the pictures of the pumps from "johnboyairey's " post. There seems to be something missing from the front of the pump Shocked Maybe I have found the problem. Seems there is no clutch on the pump. WTF Exclamation

Post #261698 27th May 2014 5:48pm
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johnboyairey



Member Since: 11 Jan 2013
Location: surrey
Posts: 2032

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Westminster TDV8 Orkney Grey

i cant really tell with those pics. but yes, have a better look tomorrow. with engine switched off, you should be able to turn that front part by hand. there is a small 12mm nut in middle. BTW what engine is this please.. to replace that pump you are going to have to bleed down the gas you just had pumped in. it is illegal to just vent it, and dangerous to you and pets, and your wallet if caught. you could get it vacuumed at your aircon garage. try and get a better pic first and post.
if you have a look at those ebay pics again you will see there are about 5 grooves for the serp' belt, yes, then about 10mm along you will see the tiny gap, then a 5mm plate, with a thicker but smaller mini flywheel. between this mini fly wheel and the 5mm plate is the return spring, to retract it . so it clicks and moves whilst spinning. therefore it might be not engaging, or moving when not in use. -if it's there at all!

the front radiator goes in front of the water rad, and is full size, (the condenser) and has extra fans. this has pipes to both the pump on the engine, and a pair of black caps to fill and drain system etc. these go onto the evaporator that sits sort of inside the bulkhead.

in case you wonder how it works, and because I'm bored....

-- remember back to pumping up your old bike tyres, the pump would get warm. ie compressing air creates heat. - therefore, releasing compressed room temperature air... like with an aerosol can, creates a drop in temperature. can goes cold... so, if you pump up some part liquefied gas, and move it to the condensor, the heat needs to be removed first. you allow passing air to cool it. (electric fans help this too) allowing it to decompress, ie spray out, into the evaporator, creates an ice cold mini radiator, in your heater. which you in turn blow internal air across to create a cold stream of air. and this cool(ish) air then goes back to the pump and round again. there is a drag created whilst pumping, so the clutch is only engaged when required. for better economy.
works same way as a fridge, and heat pumps in buildings that can actually use a river to heat a building, using this method in reverse. (ie chilll a river colder, to extract heat and blow into buildings) clever stuff. lesson endeth. wake up now everybody...

Post #261772 27th May 2014 9:57pm
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iphs



Member Since: 07 May 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 198

England 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Buckingham Blue

Yeah thanks, I got all of that. The engine is a 3.0 TDV6. On the pictures in the links you have sent me, there is a domed disc on the outside of the "belt Wheel" part. This is not there on mine and I cant seem to find anything that will turm by hand. I am now thinking that this "clutch" part is missing. When I have time and I can get under the car (weather permitting) I will geta better look at it.

I intend to have the system vacuumed again before taking anything off the car.

I will also get the part number from the Pump at the same time.

Thanks for your help. Thumbs Up

Post #261776 27th May 2014 10:23pm
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johnboyairey



Member Since: 11 Jan 2013
Location: surrey
Posts: 2032

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Westminster TDV8 Orkney Grey

It should look like this one i just clicked your profile it says you are a 2003 td6 not a tdv6 you have a straight six td6 yes? if its a td6 it will look like this

Post #261805 28th May 2014 7:15am
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SteveMFr
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Member Since: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Strasbourg, France
Posts: 1641

Hi iphs,
don't go through the trouble of removing and replacing bits w/o a thorough diagnosis first - throwing parts at a prob is not an economical way to repair anything.

Compressors generally don't just go bad without showing their problem: they either leak or have a mechanical failure such as a bad bearing, etc. which you can feel by turning the compressor by hand. The info that johnboy has given you is quite good - and ACs are really quite simple systems.

If you look at the pic of the compressor clutch he posted, you can see the hub at the front of the compressor with a plate attached to it with rivets. This is the driven hub (attached directly to the compressor) and the clutch plate. Moving further back, there is an air gap to the pulley that the multi-rib belt rides on. Inside this pulley there is a large electromagnetic spool. When energized, this spool pulls the clutch plate tight on to the pulley and the compressor turns with the pulley.

Without the belt (as in the pic), the pulley should spin easily and freely and the hub can be turned by hand as well (though it won't spin). If you get under your RR and remove the sump plate, you should be able to grab the hub and turn the compressor (WITHOUT THE MOTOR RUNNING Shocked ). You will feel resistance of course, as you are compressing the refrigerant by hand, but you should not feel any grinding or mechanical resistance (hard stop, clunk, etc).

If the compressor passes this test, you can by-pass all electronics and test the compressor directly by energizing the clutch (Ensure you follow general safety procedures when working with live 12V wires and running motors - hands well away from moving parts, etc). The easiest way to do this is to make a 1m long cable with an in-line 20A fuse, a croc clip at one end and a pin probe (or, in a pinch, open wire) at the other end. You'll need to find the compressor electrical connector - usually in the vicinity of the hoses going to and from the compressor. Follow the clutch wire exiting the perimeter of the clutch and leading to this connector to locate the appropriate pin in the connector (or check the RAVE). With the motor running, attach the croc clip to the + jumper terminal in front of the battery and apply 12V to the clutch pin in the electrical connector. You'll hear the clutch engage and see the hub turn. Within a few seconds, the thicker of the 2 refrigerant lines leading to the compressor should begin to feel cooler while the thiner line will begin to heat up. If you do not fell the thicker line beginning to cool within 15-20 secs STOP and remove the 12V from the clutch. You may have a blockage or closed expansion valve and by applying 12V directly to the clutch, all safety systems are bypassed and you will be building pressure endlessly. This can cause serious damage to the AC, or if a line pops at the wrong place, serious injury.

If all the system is cooling when energized directly, you will likely have a bad hi/low press switch (safety switch). You can then jumper the terminals here to test before replacing this switch.

If you are not getting the system to cool by energizing the clutch directly, you'll have to go back to the specialist as you'll need gages on the lines to see what the system is doing. While AC systems do not need to be sterile internally, thy do not take too well to having lines left open to the elements for months at a time.

HTH
Steve 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Post #261834 28th May 2014 10:25am
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iphs



Member Since: 07 May 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 198

England 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Buckingham Blue

First of all, thanks to all of you for the replies. I do appreciate them all.

I have looked at all the pictures I can and had a good look at the pump on my car and I can definately state that there is a huge part missing. see the picture below.





My Pump






With that in mind I intend to have the system drained by AC specialist, remove and replace the pump myself then take it back to be vacuum tested and re-gassed by the specialist.

Post #261925 28th May 2014 5:43pm
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SteveMFr
Site Sponsor


Member Since: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Strasbourg, France
Posts: 1641

You are missing the front half of the compressor clutch Shocked

What kind of shyster got a hold of your RR?

And your AC specialist did not see this? 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Post #262361 30th May 2014 7:02pm
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