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RAGE72



Member Since: 21 Jul 2021
Location: Goole
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover Autobiography Black 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

Ok i will have a look at this when i get home tmrw if its not raining.

Thanks for the information.

Post #651745 27th Dec 2022 7:34pm
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RAGE72



Member Since: 21 Jul 2021
Location: Goole
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover Autobiography Black 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black
Progress and then not progress

Sorry its been a while didnt have any time to drill into it and when i did it was a rainy day or snowing.

So finally did some checking and all appeared fine at pump so i decided to send the pump away for testing via a local garage think they said it was RBA Reman can get the specifics if any one wants.

They tested the pump and reported it to be fine.

So i refitted this and still nothing so i dug around the fuses some more are i found with ignition on the small separate are within the big fusebox under bonnet over offside wing all the supplied were down around 5v.
i pulled and refitted all these and bingo faults ALL disappeared and it fired straight up (though now with no brakes until pedal was almost touching floor as the pump was full of air).

Later that evening i met the garage owner at the garage while it was quiet and took it down and parked in the yard.

Plan was for them to bleed all the brakes and swap all the brake fluid out and then do an MOT.

They put it on ramp and on the 4th bleeding cycle something tripped and all the faults re appeared with it now stuck oin ramp so i went over and we got it off the ramp and out of the way and i went back into the fusebox and sure enough the main ABS feeds in the little area that has like 5 fuses and 2 relays was all at 13v until ignitioj is switched on then it drops to around 4v if i disconnect the abs pump and put ignition on then these stay at 13v.

SO it seems the ABS is pulling the power right down despite the company giving it the ok.

So where do i go from here as apparently you cannot swap these pumps exept with a brand new one as supposedly once they are progreammed in they cannot be transferred or thats what im led to believe.

I understand i can fit a different pump but the ABS light will be unable to be extinguished.

Any advise what to do next should i disconnect the pump motor on the unit and see if it still drags down supply.

At least its inside now to do anything on it and i have a good working relationship with them as i look after the electrics etc there and there homes but they wont want it stuck taking up space for weeks.

Post #658653 6th Mar 2023 4:08pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

It won't be the ABS pump pulling the power down to 4V, it will be a bad connection upstream. What you need to do is go connector by connector, fuse by fuse back towards the battery, checking the voltage either side whilst the fault is apparent, at some point you'll get a low reading on one side but a battery voltage the other, firstly though, use your nose & eyes to look / sniff for any signs of overheating, high resistance almost always causes the area around it to heat up (dependent upon current draw) which will result in discolouration or even deformation.

Post #658675 6th Mar 2023 6:40pm
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RAGE72



Member Since: 21 Jul 2021
Location: Goole
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover Autobiography Black 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

It will have to be something common to the small group of fuses in question. All the cables from this mini fuse board all exit via loom towards the abs unit. When the pump is connected all of these fuses are pulled down simultaneously going to have to dig around fir some diagrams ti see where these are all supplied from.

Post #658706 6th Mar 2023 11:18pm
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RAGE72



Member Since: 21 Jul 2021
Location: Goole
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover Autobiography Black 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black
Update

So the fault is that the small fuseboard 'B' that i was getting low voltage on def has an issue getting its power i temporarily have taken power from the large stud 'C' to the left hand of this main fuseboard and entered it via a 40a Fuse onto the small seperate fuseboard 'A' thats to its right all within the fuseboard located over the front offside wheel under bonnet and its fine all faults clear starts right up and no volt drop. So i need to determine where this board 'B' gets its feed/s from to find the actual fault. Can anyone also advise whats the difference between these 2 power sections as in vehicle timeouts etc as that will determine how urgent the proper fix is as currently the 2 sections are now powered at the same time.

If needs be temporary i can add a relay that energises to take power from the stud 'C' only when the existing low current but available power is energised at point 'D' so the small fuseboard only gets the current boost when the normal power is available in this area. I think i will do this anyway as its relatively simple and it will only get the power when it SHOULD be there.

Any one can point me in the direction of the upstream supplies for this be appreciated.

Theres either a bad connection or a failing wire thats been over stressed and lost some of its internal cores (i had this on an old jeep of mine where the loom had a tight bend and over time some of the cores failed and jeep ran a new supply and this was an ABS fault too which did exactly what this is doing volts fine but dropped when ABS was trying to self test and failed thats what made me go to this as soon as i saw the volt drop when pump connected.)

At least its progress now i just need to find the Actiual faulty connection or cable

Post #658879 8th Mar 2023 6:01pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

You should be able to work it out from this.
https://www.fullfatrr.com/gallery/albums/u...cables.pdf

Haven't a clue about what the switching arrangements are though - not something I've ever had to worry about, as you can probably understand, temporary workarounds are not really something we do - especially on power distribution circuits.

Post #658882 8th Mar 2023 6:26pm
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RAGE72



Member Since: 21 Jul 2021
Location: Goole
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover Autobiography Black 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

Hi I cannot locate the details of this small auxiliary board Internet draws a total blank. The area where this small fuseboard is on everything I find is just a space.

I have attached an image below which shows the FA fuse numbers. Where ever the power collectively for these circuits comes from is where my issue is. The fuses are all individually fed into the fuses not a common rail but at some point the relevant circuits come together from a feed and that's the one I need to find.

Post #659037 10th Mar 2023 11:28am
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jagracer



Member Since: 14 Aug 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 113

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zermatt Silver

I understand your pain. I have a couple of Freelander 2's in the family. My daughter had a new alternator fitted in the grey car as the voltage was 16 volts. THe mechanic then said it needed a starter motor. The engine was then found to be seized. Right, I told him he was a W***r and he got upset. So, I put the diagnistics on it. No Lin bus, no communication, fusebox voltages all over the place. So dead short somewhere, perhaps. Found repaired wires in the engine loom, pulled the engine out and put a second hand low mileage engine in. NO start, checked all the faults again, ah, temperature sensor and oil level switches not compatible. By now Iwas a bit P***d off. Took the starter motor off, and took the solenoid out, surprise, the solenoid was jammed and the starter key in check had therefore not finished the check-sum to set the ECU. I put another starter in and reset all the fault codes, away it went! THe old engine was now turning over. I changed all the relays and fuses from a second hand fuse box and it has been OK for the last year. Long story, but often its not what you think is wrong but because of a simple mechanical fault, ie, made in China starter motor. Not a Rangrover, but still a Landrover of the same era.

Post #659059 10th Mar 2023 7:10pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

Your vehicle profile is misleading - the schematic I posted is for up to 10MY, from the VIN in one of your photos, yours is a 10MY. The schematic will be different, if you can't get hold of the correct 'battery mounting and cables' for your MY - which has the distances from connections to splices annotated, then you're going to have to open up the harness to find the splice.

Post #659077 10th Mar 2023 8:19pm
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RAGE72



Member Since: 21 Jul 2021
Location: Goole
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover Autobiography Black 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

Profile I agree I appear to own a 2010 rangerover but it is 2009 59 registration and appears to have a lot of extra cables from normal. I can't even find any details of any vehicle having this additional 12 way auxiliary board.

What I find confusing is they all power up at same time and are fused but are not supplied in the board with single supply.
I'm electronics trained from college and am also a fully qualified electrician and electrical inspector as well as an electrical controls and Instrument engineer at a major powerstation so I understand every element of wiring etc but really don't understand why this appears to be wired this way. I suspect as the wires head straight out through the loom and into the passenger compartment that these go to the main fuseboard behind glovebox. I'm happy to dive In but at same time I'd rather not disturb all the cables etc without knowing I'm digging Im right place.

Post #659109 11th Mar 2023 1:10pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

Well if you are hesitant about opening up the harness, you could use a FLIR or IR thermometer to find the 'warm spot', or use a TDR to find the distance to the disturbance, both methods are common in fault finding in automotive, fixed installation and HV distribution networks.

I did consider whether your vehicle was a test & development mule, very few escaped the clutches of Gaydon (mainly due to tax implications) and your fuse box cover label looks 'production quality', so somewhere, there will be the answer. Have you considered buying access to Topix for 24 hours for your VIN only?

Post #659119 11th Mar 2023 3:00pm
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RAGE72



Member Since: 21 Jul 2021
Location: Goole
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover Autobiography Black 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

TDR would be usefull but as its not something I do regular it's not really something I wanna splash 600plus on. I'm not sure topic would really give me the information need. Once it cokes back from garage where its having brakes bled after removal of pump I will have to have a look at the fuseboard behind glove box and see of there's anything obvious. I reluctant to allow the fault to show again as don't want to keep subjecting the electrics to 4.5v. All I need to know is where this board is fed from might try a cable tracer ot just look for something obvious or the strange hidden fuses on backnof the main glove box board that having dug into this some people have had issues with. Its clearly not a blown fuse just a bad board, connector or splice someplace. At least she's running again in the interim. Thanks for help so far I do appreciate it

Post #659140 11th Mar 2023 7:02pm
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RAGE72



Member Since: 21 Jul 2021
Location: Goole
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover Autobiography Black 5.0 SC V8 Santorini Black

Just to close this out i eventually found a burned connection behind the fuseboard behind glovebox i re made the connections and bingo never skipped a beat since i will add i spent a total or around 80 hours going through all kinds of issues until i finally found this.

Thanks for the help along the way and i l know part failed cables a re a rare fault and are also hard to locate this is only the 2nd time i have ever come across this issue and speaking to other autoelectricians they point to almost once in a lifetime issues from part broken cables likely from being stressed when bent during manufacture.

Post #685579 13th Feb 2024 8:43pm
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