fullfatrr.com - View topic - Engine Oil Level

Advertise on fullfatrr.com »

Forum · Gallery · Wiki · Shop · Sponsors

Home · FAQ · New Posts · My Posts · PMs · Search · Members · Map · Calendar · Profile · Donate · Register · Log In

Home > Maintenance & Mods (L405) > Engine Oil Level - Not Available [4.4 SDV8]

Page 1 of 3

Print this entire topic ·

Zebedee

Member Since: 09 Jun 2016
Location: Cheshire/South Manchester
Posts: 382

2013 Range Rover Vogue SDV8 Santorini Black

Engine Oil Level - Not Available [4.4 SDV8]

I realise that this topic has been covered elsewhere, but I thought I'd try to bring together the subject of the oil level sensor failure on the 4.4, and some possible solutions. For those who have gone into the dash menu and followed the instructions in the handbook about how to read the oil level, but still get the "Engine Oil Level - Not Available" message, this might be for you.

The oil level sensor/wiring is prone to failure, and the solution has been to remove the sump to replace the sensor which is fitted into the sump. Fine if under warranty and someone else is paying. However, if you're paying for it yourself, the job takes about 10-hours and involves draining the oil, removing the front drive shafts, removing the front differential and dropping the sub-frame [assuming the sub-frame bolts come out without shearing] in order to get to the sump bolts. Once the sump has been removed it is an easy job to replace the sensor and the wiring loom that attaches to the sensor and to a plug that sits in the side of the sump. The kit for fixing the job includes the sensor, the wiring loom that sits in the sump [which has been improved from the original spec], a clamp and a replacement sump gasket. Maltings are selling this kit for £95 including delivery [green circled items].

Failure is normally due to oil ingress into the wiring loom, and then into the sensor itself. You can often see the signs of it by removing the front undertray, and accessing the wiring loom that connects to the plug in the side of the sump. This plug is not easy to get to and is a black plug on the right hand side of the engine [when looking forward] near the starter-motor. Removing this connector can show signs of oil inside the plug.

Land Rover have issued a Service Instruction [N357 v2] which adds protection to oil penetration into the wiring by adding a second small wiring harness between the plug on the side of the engine and the wiring loom to the ECU [LR117163]. Land Rover is also aware of the increasing frequency of this failure, and is/was quoting only 7-hours to replace the sensor, even though it really is taking them 10-hours.

The design flaw is the sensor [Hella FoMoCo part 8W93-6C624-BG] is really designed to be fitted externally to the sump, rather than inside - it even has a oil control seal to prevent oil leakage. If the sensor fails, replacement should be easy by draining the oil and removing the 3 bolts to replace the sensor.

Presumably because of the shape of the sump and to cut costs, Ford/Land Rover have decided to fit it inside the sump [submerged in hot oil] with a short wiring loom to the plug on the outside of the sump [which is also constantly submerged in hot oil].

If you're not prepared to pay the £750 (cheapest independent) to £1500 (stealer) price to be able to know if you have any oil in your engine, a cheap and practical fix to this is use the thinnest bass guitar string (about £5) down the oil extraction tube to act like a dipstick. Trim off the end so there are no sharp edges and this wire will go around the bends in the oil extraction tube right to the bottom. The length from the top of the oil extraction tube to the bottom of the sump is 84cm, and oil should be about at the 69-71cm point from the top [I've tried this fix on a working 4.4 SDV8 which read full at 71cm, and filling mine up with exactly the right amount of oil read 69cm]. Low would be about 76cm. I will do more to confirm the exact height high and low should be, and also the best way to mark the points on the guitar string.

Click image to enlarge

This fix isn't perfect. The guitar string draws oil up the extraction tube so your first dip is really the accurate one until the oil has drained back into the sump, and it is not totally easy to see an exact mark. You also have to store the guitar string somewhere [in the glove compartment?]. However, it is a good deal cheaper than replacing the sensor and gives some confidence that the oil level is right.

If anyone has a working oil level sensor and a spare bass guitar string, it would be good to know your measurements of oil levels. Current:
- 2017 L405 3.0 V6 Autobiography
Sold:
- 2013 L405 4.4 TDV8 Vogue
- 2004 L322 4.4 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 2002 L322 4.4 HSE (having fixed timing chain guides)
- 2000 P38 4.6 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 1981 2-door In-Vogue
- 1980 Ex-Army SIII LWB
- 1976 SIII LWB
- 1968 SIIA
Stripped for parts:
- 2003 L322 4.4 Vogue

Last edited by Zebedee on 14th Sep 2023 5:26pm. Edited 2 times in total

4th Sep 2020 4:45pm

jettec

Member Since: 16 Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 229

2013 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Fuji White

I have had mine fail twice and spent around $ 4500 dollars .
I hope they have done the new mod on the last fix.
Thank you for your very in-depth review of the fault!
I would buy in a heart beat a made up dip stick for the checking the oil manually mainly for when I change my engine oil.
In-between the factory oil changes.
There would be a market for this product if some enterprising individual were to make one up and sell it online.
Just a thought !

5th Sep 2020 12:47am

adara

Member Since: 09 Dec 2008
Location: Eastern Europe
Posts: 772

2019 Range Rover Vogue 2.0 PHEV Santorini Black

Could grass cutting wire be used? Being yellow or red, maybe it would be easier to read, also to mark a level on it...

5th Sep 2020 5:57am

northernmonkeyjones

Member Since: 24 Mar 2012
Location: derby
Posts: 8539

2016 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Santorini Black

I would imagine it would. If it was a thicker one. There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

5th Sep 2020 8:03am

Zebedee

Member Since: 09 Jun 2016
Location: Cheshire/South Manchester
Posts: 382

I've not tried strimmer wire, and will give it a go.

The reason I plumped for bass guitar wire is it needs to be long enough (84cm) and firm enough to be pushed down around the 90 degree bends in the oil extraction tube, but still flexible enough to go around the bends. The guitar string has about the right flexibility/strength. If anyone can suggest alternatives, I will try them out.

And also if anyone can measure their oil levels to confirm the high and low point, I'll work out a way of marking the dipstick and either make a few for those interested, or show you how to make your own. Current:
- 2017 L405 3.0 V6 Autobiography
Sold:
- 2013 L405 4.4 TDV8 Vogue
- 2004 L322 4.4 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 2002 L322 4.4 HSE (having fixed timing chain guides)
- 2000 P38 4.6 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 1981 2-door In-Vogue
- 1980 Ex-Army SIII LWB
- 1976 SIII LWB
- 1968 SIIA
Stripped for parts:
- 2003 L322 4.4 Vogue

5th Sep 2020 9:38am

dingg1

Member Since: 29 Jun 2013
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 1345

2007 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 SC V8 Stornoway Grey

Jlr should sack the 'engineer' who came up with this idea and the person who gave it the go ahead.

Absolutely stupid idea

5th Sep 2020 10:05am

Zebedee

Member Since: 09 Jun 2016
Location: Cheshire/South Manchester
Posts: 382

Update:

I believe I'm closing in on a solution for this:
- The small diameter bass guitar string seems to work just right and better than strimmer wire.
- 0.6mm heat-shrink cut into rings then heated to fix onto the guitar string are just right and don't move.
- High level seems to be 73cm from the end of the oil extraction tube and low level is 78cm (I'm going to continue to test levels when I find different 4.4s).
- It's important to warm the car, then let the oil settle for a couple of hours before taking a measurement. Only the first reading is accurate.
- Let me know if you need a dipstick made - I might put a couple on eBay.
- I'll continue to work on the canister concept to house the sensor in a separate unit outside the engine.

Current:
- 2017 L405 3.0 V6 Autobiography
Sold:
- 2013 L405 4.4 TDV8 Vogue
- 2004 L322 4.4 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 2002 L322 4.4 HSE (having fixed timing chain guides)
- 2000 P38 4.6 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 1981 2-door In-Vogue
- 1980 Ex-Army SIII LWB
- 1976 SIII LWB
- 1968 SIIA
Stripped for parts:
- 2003 L322 4.4 Vogue

8th Oct 2020 12:59pm

IGP

Member Since: 09 Jul 2020
Location: Malvern
Posts: 288

2013 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Siberian Silver

My new (to me) 2013 SDV8 is going in to the garage shortly to have this fixed. Thankfully it's still under warranty. However, I would be interested in your "dipstick" for future use as I would not like to be picking up the bill for this.

Ivan 2013 Vogue SE SDV8
2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Luxury

8th Oct 2020 1:15pm

TJRL

Member Since: 07 Sep 2019
Location: Reading
Posts: 198

2011 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Baltic Blue

Would this also work on the L322 4.4 TDV8? 2010 Range Rover TDV8 Baltic Blue Autobiography (2011 MY) - SOLD
1960 Land Rover SII SWB SW
2020 BMW R1250 RT LE
2021 Triton ST-125 (Monkey Bike)

9th Oct 2020 12:39pm

Baltic Blue

Member Since: 13 Aug 2015
Location: North Wales
Posts: 3774

2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Baltic Blue

TJRL,
The sensor is mounted externally on the L322’s, so much less likely to suffer this type of failure, but I definitely agree that I would like to try one as a backup dipstick.
Perhaps the measurements would be slightly different because of the sump design changes from the L405, but we could soon all start a table of measurements and work out full, half litre top up etc.
It would be much better to get the calibration worked out whilst the electronic version is working properly, rather than when it is failed and becomes an urgent job.

One question for the L405 owners, do you leave it in situ permanently, or just thread it in when checking ??

Mike. G reg 2.5VM Vogue Portofino red 1991- 1999
V reg 2.5td P38 Rioja red 1999- 2006
53 reg td6 Vogue Oslo blue 2006- 2015
11 reg 4.4 TdV8 Vogue SE. Baltic blue 2015- date.
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic56162...tty+affair

9th Oct 2020 2:19pm

Zebedee

Member Since: 09 Jun 2016
Location: Cheshire/South Manchester
Posts: 382

Remove it when not in use.

I keep mine in the glove compartment. Current:
- 2017 L405 3.0 V6 Autobiography
Sold:
- 2013 L405 4.4 TDV8 Vogue
- 2004 L322 4.4 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 2002 L322 4.4 HSE (having fixed timing chain guides)
- 2000 P38 4.6 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 1981 2-door In-Vogue
- 1980 Ex-Army SIII LWB
- 1976 SIII LWB
- 1968 SIIA
Stripped for parts:
- 2003 L322 4.4 Vogue

9th Oct 2020 5:50pm

Cam-Tech-Craig

Member Since: 03 Aug 2011
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 16294

2015 Range Rover SVAutobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

Zebadee, if you want to make me one and ill check all the 405's/322's that come through the workshop? Would that help?

9th Oct 2020 10:41pm

Zebedee

Member Since: 09 Jun 2016
Location: Cheshire/South Manchester
Posts: 382

Craig - that would be brilliant. Thanks.

I’ll make one up and post it to you. Current:
- 2017 L405 3.0 V6 Autobiography
Sold:
- 2013 L405 4.4 TDV8 Vogue
- 2004 L322 4.4 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 2002 L322 4.4 HSE (having fixed timing chain guides)
- 2000 P38 4.6 Vogue (BRC LPG)
- 1981 2-door In-Vogue
- 1980 Ex-Army SIII LWB
- 1976 SIII LWB
- 1968 SIIA
Stripped for parts:
- 2003 L322 4.4 Vogue

10th Oct 2020 7:15am

Chris thegasman

Member Since: 01 Oct 2021
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2

2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Barolo Black

Did this the other day with base guitar wire as advised works fine and as I guide we found that the level of oil when full was almost the same as the width side to side of the air box so an easy visual check if you haven’t got a tape measure
Thanks for the guide. zebedee

2nd Oct 2021 3:44pm

Old-un

Member Since: 12 Feb 2022
Location: Manchester
Posts: 143

2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Causeway Grey

How would one use this checking method on an L322. ? where for instance is the 'entry tube' to shove the wire down ?

My 2011 L322 computer oil check works ok but just in case, y'know, it would be good to have a backup.

Photo would be appreciated.
RR owner

24th Feb 2022 10:17pm

Page 1 of 3

All times are GMT

Jump to

< Previous Topic | Next Topic >

Posting Rules

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum