As much as I agree wholeheartedly that dedicated Winter tyres will give you better grip in the snow, I think the marketing machines have been working overtime.

I read that a standard tyre on a dry but cold road is no longer as effective. Next time you blast down the motorway or even drive round the corner, put your hand on your tyre (stop first!) - it will never be freezing cold. Admittedly it will not be toasty warm, but if the adverts are to be believed then your tyres practically stop working when the temperatures get down to 7C.

It's all to do with the temperature of the tyre, rather than the temperature of the road. After the tyre has warmed up to 10-15C as would be normal even in sub-zero conditions then it will behave just as normal.

Obviously you will get a slight benefit when you set off on your journey. But if you are going to pull out of your drive and str8 into the ditch then I guess winter tyres probably wouldn't help you much.

I've pushed L322's to the edge of what's possible with nearly bald wranglers etc and the car does its best to make up for the tyres shortcomings. My word of warning though is to leave that DSC switch alone unless you have a spare set of pants.

http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic787.html 

I needed a new set of tyres on my FFRR recently and having read widely on the subject (and Vogue's posts on this topic have been particularly helpful, especially as he runs a fleet of cars and has kept proper records so actually has data to go on rather than hearsay) I decided to go for Vred Wintracs. Bought them from Tyreman in Hull for about £155ea and intend to run them all year round.

Initial impressions: Very Good. On cold wet roads braking performance is very obviously superior to a summer tyre as a couple of near emergency stops have clearly demonstrated. No experience on snow or ice yet but Wintracs qualities are well documented in that regard. As an additional bonus ride quality seems as good or better than the Pirreli Scorpions I was previously using, ditto tyre noise.

Overall: Very Happy!! Will be very interested to see what the wear rates are like on hot tarmac (eg: summer, south of France...)

The cross over point for winter tyres is 7C, so once the tyre temperature drops below 7C a winter tyre is better than a normal tyre. Normal tyre still work, but not quite as well.

I personnaly would not use winter tyres unless you live in an area that gets snow regularly and as Dan said once you get up to motorway speeds the tyres warm up. If however you know you are going to be stuck plowing through 2" or more of snow, then you are not likely to get enough speed up to 'warm' your tyres. 56 TDV8 Vogue SE
9 Freelanders, 2x 2002 TD4ES, 2001 TD4, 2002 1.8GS, 2000 XEDI, 2x 2000 1.8ES, 2004 1.8 & 2000 1.8 GS (rolled)
91 Lotus Carlton (sold)
90 Lotus Elan (BRG)

I bought some Vreds as well, but haven't fitted them yet. It's too warm down south at the moment to warrant it. Sticking my thumbnail into the rubber, I'd be surprised if they last very long running them all year round. They are basically mud and snow tyres, so will probably always be worse on dry roads than a proper road tyre. If you were chucking away worn tyres then new winter tyres will always be better by comparison, but unless the temps are quite low or it has actually snowed then new summer tyres would probably still be better.

It's a bit naive to suggest that winter tyres don't work - there's a reason why many countries require their use, and if the UK did then perhaps the country wouldn't grind to a halt at the first dusting of snow.

Tread compounds with added silica stay more flexible at lower temperatures (good luck getting your tyres warm on snow), micro-porosity helps move water, sipes help in snow and ice, different tread patterns help all three. Tyre companies don't spend millions developing them for nothing.

Whether or not using them in most of the UK is justified for the few weeks a year when their real benefits will be obvious is another matter.

I don't think anyone has said they don't work have they? Just that their benefit is greater in the right conditions. Too warm and they work less well than a summer tyre, and just wear away quicker.

scarey wrote:

they dont look like 20'' ron ?..

They are 20" stan, perhaps the black colour makes one confused.
They came togehter with the car as a winterset from the LR dealer: style 14 rims withe the Continental winter tyres. Asked them to deliver the rims in dark grey diamond turned finish but this wasn't possible, so I painted them myself. Perhaps they need a suplementary finish with a clear varnish for some more glans.

As for the use of winter tyres, we sometimes drive into Germany( no speed limits ) where the use of winter tyres is mandatory during winter. And driving in the Alps > 2500 meters hight and slopes > 25%, the've proven usefull. RR 2012MY TDV8 AB ipanema sand
RR 2004 TD6 sold now

must be one of those optical thingys ron..

all tyres are compromised - otherwise wed be running slicks or trackday rubber for summer, soft cut slicks in the rain etc

so its just a case of finding some that meet all the requirements of your own driving conditions ...the tech isnt there yet to have a super sticky tyre that lasts 30K miles though, so lots of people compromise on price/hassle factor of changing rather than pure performance

I wouldnt see the point of winter rubber if you live in a city and dont go out in winter

but live in the country at the top of a hill with a daily 1hour commute, then winter tyres are a must have

with a few more winters like last year, I can see the government making it compulsory to change over, and dealers/garages offering storage etc like they do in mainland EU countries cheers
bogie

Vogue has been running his Vred Wintracs all year round and got 40k miles out of them!

I am willing to be Guinea Pig No.2 and do the same with mine - will report back on progress.

RRG

Vred's still going strong! Not got to 40k yet but expecting too. Loads of info on the D3 forum - there is one thread running to many many pages on Vreds and winter tyres in general - well worth a read.

I learned the hard way 3 years ago on Pirelli Scorpions - oh yes standard tyres work wonderfully well in snow - so well in fact that when you come to an icy hill you are stuffed!

A fairly steep incline covered in sheet ice, I was travelling at walking pace and just couldn't stop, a vehicle loomed in front and there was NO way I could stop, steer away or round it - I just slid gracefully towards the back of this bloody yellow ex council van!

The van which was 100 yards away down slope belonged to a beater on the shoot. No matter how hard I tried to stop or steer nothing would happen - trying to stop certainly wasn't working.

In sheer desperation I gunned the motor and pulled full lock to try and get some traction and to avoid a collision. Fortunately I managed to spin her a 180 degree's sideways through a post and wire stock fence. No damage done other than a slight scratch to the bumper, but at least I managed to avoid hitting the van, which would have involved panel damage to two vehicles, possible airbags going off, embarrassment and involvement of insurance companies, loss of no claims and incovenience.

I travel down this hill regularly on shoots - last year with the Vreds on in -11 degrees the vehicle would go up and down it, stop start and steer without issue.

Anybody who doubts the ability of dedicated winter tyres, either hasn't used them or is plain daft! Virtually any tyre on a 4x4 will work well in snow - the time you need Winter tyres is stopping and going round corners! Probably due to the Silica content and Sipes.

I have other RR's with ATR's on and the difference is astonishing. I am running Vreds all year round on my daily driver totally without issue and in fairly extreme off road conditions too - even towing a 4 ton loaded twin axle stock trailer off road - makes you appreciate traction control!

RRG wrote:

Vogue has been running his Vred Wintracs all year round and got 40k miles out of them!

I am willing to be Guinea Pig No.2 and do the same with mine - will report back on progress.

RRG