Home > My Range Rover > First time owner, have I bought a dud? |
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Johnmann10 Member Since: 10 Jun 2024 Location: Rugby Posts: 11 |
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement! I do wonder if I have returned a fundamentally sound car, but that’s just buyers remorse in reverse. I am not put off buying another, I will just be more thorough next time and perhaps as suggested just factor in some repairs to my budget. I think the dealer thought I would always be a PITA which is a shame, I really am not that person. It’s back up for sale already, I hope they will make the necessary repairs this time. I am on the hunt then for a late L322 with the 4.4 engine, Vogue SE or higher. Budget is say £15K less whatever proves necessary to be spent on it if that makes sense. I prefer the lighter interiors and dark exterior colours but I am open to suggestion. No rush, the episode cost me maybe £850 so not something I want to have to do again. Thanks all for your help so far. |
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11th Jul 2024 6:48pm |
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Johnmann10 Member Since: 10 Jun 2024 Location: Rugby Posts: 11 |
To add, not adverse to a 405 if I can afford a decent one. Tax and mpg a bit easier to live with although I don’t do enough miles to worry too much about the latter. |
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11th Jul 2024 6:59pm |
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JayGee Member Since: 27 Jul 2021 Location: London Posts: 3164 |
Likley you did return a good car but if the dealer wasn't prepared to even concider fixing the important points they did what is totaly within their rights and the least hassle to them. They were just selling on a trade-in that was a bit too good to go to the auctions but not worth doing anything more. You won't find anything that won't need some work on it. These cars are now a minimum of 12 years old and were (allegedly) only built to last 5 years. Whatever you spend on the purchase just make sure you have plenty in reserve. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322) |
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11th Jul 2024 7:21pm |
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Andy S Member Since: 16 Jun 2013 Location: Sevenoaks Posts: 1011 |
At that budget you’re well into L405 territory, but older models so just as likely to have age related issues. |
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11th Jul 2024 7:25pm |
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garyRR Member Since: 13 Mar 2021 Location: Hampshire Posts: 1461 |
Just giving my tuppence worth.
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11th Jul 2024 10:20pm |
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Scouse Exile Member Since: 09 Dec 2022 Location: East Midlands Posts: 263 |
I’d have to agree with Gary here with one possible exception.
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11th Jul 2024 11:24pm |
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garyRR Member Since: 13 Mar 2021 Location: Hampshire Posts: 1461 |
The same applies legally. Yes, i would agree anything which is an MOT fail makes a vehicle unroadworthy. You must however have evidence that said item is an MOT failure and was present at the point of sale, back to the point about needing an independent report. Understandably, you can't just claim something is an MOT failure without something in writing from a Ministry of Transport tester. Depending on whether it is a serious defect or not, the dealer has the right to repair or refund. For example, a cut in the wall of a tyre would fail an MOT but is not a serious defect, and can be replaced in a matter of minutes. Without something independent, there isn't any evidence to say that cut appeared before or after the sale of the vehicle, and some buyers would be perfectly happy to accept the condition of the tyre as-is. 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 SDV8 |
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12th Jul 2024 12:30am |
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Scouse Exile Member Since: 09 Dec 2022 Location: East Midlands Posts: 263 |
This is very good from a consumer point of view;
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12th Jul 2024 8:07am |
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JayGee Member Since: 27 Jul 2021 Location: London Posts: 3164 |
Even though the law technicaly applies the OP was buying a trade in from a non RR specialist at a price that was designed to just shift it off the forecourt. A car that old and at that price would in the past have been labeled 'sold as seen' which dealers are not allowed to do anymore and hence why most trade-in's like this go to the auctions. If you want a trouble free RR where it's been thorougjly inspected and all faults rectified buy from a specialist like Fullfat4x4 but you won't be paying anywher e near this price for a sub 100k mile example. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322) |
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12th Jul 2024 8:25am |
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Scouse Exile Member Since: 09 Dec 2022 Location: East Midlands Posts: 263 |
How the dealer sourced the car is irrelevant, as is the price they sold it at unless they disclosed the issues at the point of sale and the buyer accepted on the basis that the price is structured to account for it. They could have taken it out of a skip and sold it for £10, the law applies all the same if they did not disclose issues at the point of sale.
That's not true in practice though, if you check the vehicle on sale currently it has the following MOT advisories; -Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories): -Nearside Front Brake pipe corroded, covered in grease or other material (1.1.11 (c)) -Offside Front Brake pipe corroded, covered in grease or other material (1.1.11 (c)) -Nearside Rear Brake pipe corroded, covered in grease or other material (1.1.11 (c)) See: https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/resul...calls=true I would argue that is not preparing it to the highest standard, brake pipes are one of the items on the OP's list of complaints. It is however as GaryRR pointed out commensurate with a 12 year old second hand car and perfectly reasonable for a dealer to sell in this condition. I think traders get a bad name sometimes but in this case the people were totally fair. J |
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12th Jul 2024 9:33am |
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JayGee Member Since: 27 Jul 2021 Location: London Posts: 3164 |
If I was the dealer I'd do what they did ( and roll my eyes )
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12th Jul 2024 10:17am |
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Scouse Exile Member Since: 09 Dec 2022 Location: East Midlands Posts: 263 |
Spot on JayGee.
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12th Jul 2024 10:43am |
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garyRR Member Since: 13 Mar 2021 Location: Hampshire Posts: 1461 |
I think you probably have returned a sound car. Everything you listed were all serviceable items and not unexpected on a car of age and mileage. You should obviously agree a price based on what you know a car needs doing (pre purchase inspections shouldn't scare people off, because they will always find something - they're about giving you the facts, so you know what upcoming servicing costs there are). Every 2nd hand car you look at could always do with some bit of maintenance - there's thousands of components that wear over time. The CRA 2015 is rather incompatible with 2nd hand goods sales and really needs amendment (if you bought a 2nd hand wardrobe and the hinge broke off the door a month later, you'd just fit a new one - you wouldn't expect a refund or the people who sold it to fit you a new one. So, there is such a deep disparity when it comes to 2nd hand cars). Dealers should and quite rightly will try and sell "trade sales", usually cars which are traded in that due to price, age, mileage or condition they can't feasibly or realistically warrant for you. They still can, but the vehicles must be clearly advertised as not to mislead a consumer that they are being advertised as a trade sale intended for purchase in connection with your occupation (to which CRA 2015 rules do not apply - it's also how auctions work). If you actually are a consumer and sign to say that you're not is entirely your own decision, in exchange for a cheap car, but the point is that the advertisements make it clear they are not intended as a retail sale and vehicles may have pre-existing faults. Also note that when it comes to vehicles, "faults" don't mean something like brake pads being low, a bit of corrosion or a tyre low on tread. They have to be faults which materially change the suitability of the good offered for sale, such that they make it of unsatisfactory quality at point of sale, that you couldn't reasonably expect or find at point of inspection prior to sale. The Ombudsman and courts interpret this as something which is dangerous that makes the vehicle unroadworthy. The dealer can evidence what they did to ensure the vehicle was (e.g. a copy of a x point check, a diagnostic report, an MOT certificate etc). The buyer has to provide equivalent evidence to prove their claim, unless the dealer agrees but contests the approach / costs of repair. You will need to factor upcoming maintenance into any L322 purchase, so it's more about how much and price than if. 2015 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 SDV8 |
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15th Jul 2024 9:26am |
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Stuart- Member Since: 16 Dec 2017 Location: UK and Hong Kong Posts: 298 |
This is what the topic boils down to, and is the takeaway for the OP and others. If you buy from anyone other than an independent specialist, Range Rover main dealer or fastidious owner, then you are going to get a car that has a few niggles. The list looks typical of what anyone would expect of a PX'd car. A Subaru dealer won't know one end of a Range Rover from another. If it goes, stops, has an MOT and looks OK then someone will buy it, as the OP did. They choose between trading/auctioning PXs and retailing them. You retail the good stuff. The dealer wasn't banking on a buyer who would have it checked over afterward. Easier to refund him and sell it to someone else as he did. It sounded like an otherwise honest car that wanted a couple of grand spending on it. 2017 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography in black 2018 D300 SE Velar in champagne Spiffing wheel centre caps, L322 sill repair panels, etc |
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15th Jul 2024 11:40am |
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