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fisha

Member Since: 25 Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1350

2015 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Aruba

Flushing the dynamic response system ( pump circuit )

So a while back I put water into the dynamic response fluid reservoir. I flushed it out soon after, and after a few weeks flushed it out again and I thought I would show some pics in case anyone else wants/needs to do similar down the line.

As yet I haven’t a means to put the valve block into a bleed mode. I need a better diagnostic tool than the iidtool which I don’t believe has the function. So that leaves flushing what I can, and here is how it went.

Update with fluids I believe are correct from my web searching:
LR Part number: STC50519 ( I think )
Texaco 33270 / Cold Climate PSF 14315. ( I understand this to be the original fluid standard which others meet )
GM 9985835
ZF TE-ML
Other UK Sources which list as suitable and easily had in the UK cheaper than LR:
West Way Oils Cold Climate ACE / PAS Fluid ( I used this on the 1st flush )
Smith and Allan Cold Climate PSF ( I used this second time round as pictured)

When I originally put water in, it came out like this which was quite thick and sludgy.

Click image to enlarge

Second time round, it came out still opaque, but its consistency was very much like new fluid, and had a green sheen to it ( like new fluid).

Click image to enlarge

So first thing is to empty out the reservoir. I use a cheap 100ml syringe and a bit of hose to reach down into the bottom corner of the tank ( arrowed ). It takes about 250ml out to empty.

Click image to enlarge

Then undo the 10mm bolt that holds the tank to the strut mount. Once undone, the tank can be pulled upwards to gain access to the pipes. The bottom pipe is the flow from the tank to the pump. The upper pipe with the 90deg bend is the return from the valve block. You only need to disconnect the return.

Click image to enlarge

I found it best to undo the clip around the hose and move it away from the connector. Move it a good bit away as the plastic pipe is inserted about an inch into the hose. ( i moved it to about the dotted line )

Click image to enlarge

Then you can remove the connector off the tank. Press in the latch (1), then pull outwards (2) which you might need to assist with a screwdriver as leverage. The connector needs to come away a fair distance from the tank as the pipe inside is about an inch long inside. (Dotted red line).

Click image to enlarge

Then i put a blocked up piece of hose over the return pipe going into the tank.

Click image to enlarge

At this point, you can wiggle out the plastic 90deg bend. I found it easier to twist it as I pulled. You wouldn’t be able to do this if the bend were still attached to the tank.

Click image to enlarge

I then fitted a hose extension onto the return hose. I use a valve as it means I can close it off to minimise fluid flowing back when I disconnect it later.

Click image to enlarge

And ran the extension into a catch canister with a gauge to monitor how much it was filled ( cause it fills FAST )

Click image to enlarge

Reseat the tank in normal position and use a funnel to fill. I made up a funnel from a bottle as the nozzle is short. A long thin nozzle pushes too far into the tank against a filter inside and would restrict the tank filling … which you dont want as it draws it as quick as it can be filled.

Click image to enlarge

At this point its ready to be filled. (I’ll update this post later with the fluids that can be used ).

Before filling, put aside about 500ml of new fluid into a different container. You need this later as the tank needs drained like at the start in order to refit the pipes … after which it needs topped back up again from that fluid which you’ve kept aside.

Click image to enlarge

To refill:
- fill the tank to the top
- have someone start the engine.
- the tank level will drop instantly and quickly
- keep filling the tank as it draws
- watch the catch tank fill up till you get close to running out of new fluid.
- near sh!t yourself as the catch tank beings to fall over and try to empty itself across the engine bay

- shout to the assistant to turn the engine off

Marvel at how you saw the fluid being pushed out change from milky colour to a clear light green colour. You can see this in the catch tank the change as it filled …

Click image to enlarge

And the clear fluid now in this section of the system:

Click image to enlarge

To finish it off, syringe out the tank to empty it, reconnect the hoses, and then refil the the correct level using the fluid you set aside thoughtfully at the start !

Click image to enlarge

To close out, this was the fluid which was in the catch tank … so even this is much clearer than where I started.

Click image to enlarge

- - - - - - - - - -

Now, I dont consider that this is the end of my efforts. There will still be some water in the system, and it’ll change towards being milky again … but far far less than before. My first flush didn’t anywhere as close to how clean the fluid being pushed out was this time, so I’m much happier about now.

Until I sort out a diagnostic kit, this is my only option.

And to clarify, throughout this, there has been no errors thrown by the car, and its driven fine throughout the time. V8 or else ...

10th Jan 2023 11:47pm

Gremlin500

Member Since: 11 Mar 2022
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 1415

@Fisha,

Great write-up, very clear & concise, well deserves to be Wikified! “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

11th Jan 2023 7:15am

stan
Site Moderator

Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: a moderate moderated moderator moderating moderately in moderation
Posts: 35262

it does..

and its in the wiki.... ... - .- -.

Y. O. L. O.
.

11th Jan 2023 7:26am

knwatkins

Member Since: 11 Sep 2020
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 768

2014 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Corris Grey

A great write up for the community. Thanks Fisha 👍 Kev

2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey

11th Jan 2023 7:53pm

horse86

Member Since: 09 Dec 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 860

2014 Range Rover Autobiography 5.0 SC V8 Causeway Grey

Re: Flushing the dynamic response system ( pump circuit )

fisha wrote:
So a while back I put water into the dynamic response fluid reservoir. I flushed it out soon after, and after a few weeks flushed it out again and I thought I would show some pics in case anyone else wants/needs to do similar down the line.

How much did you need to flush it fully? 2-3 liters?

Nice write up. I been thinking about flushing mine. So this will flush the lines but no necessarily the ACE block correct?

so long as you don’t let air in (make sure to keep the rez topped off while engine is running) you are good? I’m guessing air in the line would be a huge “oh F!”?

Does this system not need to be pressurized when a bleed like this is done?

I need to find where and what options for fluid I have here in the states…the LR fluid is impossible to come by 2014 FF Autobiography 5.0 SC
2008 FFRR (sold)
2008 BMW M5

5th Feb 2023 3:49am

fisha

Member Since: 25 Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1350

Sorry, here comes a long post …

Yes, that’s how I understand it. I’m only flushing the reservoir, pump and that side of the valve block. As for air, you’ll be able to pour in from a normal gallon container fast enough to counter the draw that the pump takes from the reservoir. It draws quick, but not panic quick, so if it draws below the level of the pump, you’ll have a couple of seconds before that level goes all the way down to the pump and cavitates, which will be enough time to pour faster to refill. It wasn’t that bad to gauge how fast to pour. I bought a 5lite container for each of the flushes.

Now, I first thought that this flush wouldn’t touch any of the fluid that’s the other side of the valve block, but I’m not so sure.

I had originally thought that the system worked by the pump pushing pressure towards the valve block, then as the car rolled, the valves would open and pass that pressure onto the relevant side of the rollbar, and that each side was a closed end that the fluid pushed against … a bit like a brake line has a closed end at the caliper piston which you press against. If this were the case, then the contaminated fluid wouldn’t really have got past the valve block much as the fluid after the block has no where to go, it just sits there transferring the pressure down the line. This idea was also supported by the notion that each side of the active rollbar has a bleed valve … like a brake caliper would.

Ir order to bleed that part of the system, I would need a tool to tell the valves in the block to open to allow pressure through it, and then also another tool to create that pressure …. Which would be the pressure bottle bleed setup that you are referring to. You could thane bleed each side like a brake caliper.

However

I’ve also read that the system is not so much 4 separate pressure lines to each corner from the valve block, but more like a front loop axle loop and rear axle loop, and that the fluid flows in a circuit from the valve block through the rollbar and back to the valve block, all the time being pushed by the pressure created by the pump when the valves open. The direction of flow around the circuit changes depending on which way car is leaning and the way the valves open.

If that were the case, then it would mean that when cornering, the fluid in the lines are being mixed with the fluid in the reservoir quite well and flushing the fluid is flushing the lines too.

So at this point, I’m of the opinion that as a result of driving, I’m flushing the whole system in a roundabout way. I will definitely do another flush in a month or so, and I’ll assess whether it’s worth doing another.

- - - - - - -

As for fluid, I listed the various equivalents I found online … a lot of which came from US forums. I would say look for the texaco / GM numbers … they are the more US based versions. V8 or else ...

6th Feb 2023 9:26am

horse86

Member Since: 09 Dec 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 860

Thorough reply! Lol

What source did you get your fluid from in the states? Have a link. I have yet to find a decent deal and the ones I have are over seas and would cost a boatload literally to ship

Edit: just took notice that you are from EU 2014 FF Autobiography 5.0 SC
2008 FFRR (sold)
2008 BMW M5

8th Feb 2023 3:20am

baz000000

Member Since: 01 Apr 2022
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 123

2016 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

I did a reservoir and fluid change today trying out a suction method on the return line as I have done this with success on other car PAS fluid changes in the past. The Range Rover stability control circuit doesn't allow for sucking through so I did have to run the engine in 3 second bursts (a 500ml reservoir fill). To keep the oil in the reservoir ahead of pumping I simply didn't remove the red push in stopper that comes with the new unit.

In total 3 oil fills of the reservoir were run through before the oil discharge line turned green with fresh oil so 1.5l of oil flushed the system and around 400ml was added to the reservoir to take it to the max fill line. The cars was taken on a 5 mile run and the reservoirs topped off with around 50ml of oil. The oil in the reservoir looked the same as the new, green oil, so I'm assuming the system is pretty well flushed as the car was driven enthusiastically on very a winding road.

I found it easier as a two person job to get the new reservoir coupled to the discharge line as the clamp is a strong one to open up. One person supported the bottom discharge hose while the other held the clamp open and pushed the reservoir onto the pipe. Then the second body was needed to start/stop the engine to pump the fluid.

23rd Mar 2024 7:00pm

Haylands

Member Since: 04 Mar 2014
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 8178

2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

When I replaced both front and rear pipes on mine

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic67828.html

I read the Workshop Manual and its 14 page, 35 point section just on bleeding the system, IMHO totally OTT for a hydraulic system. I think the reason is because JLR consider any air in the system could result in reduced handling and subsequently be a safety issue.

Pat at Gap (IID) will be adding the pump flush programme sometime soon buy I didn't need it...

From empty I filled the reservoir, it took about 3/4 of a ltr, started the engine and the level dropped significantly, I topped it up with another 1/2 ltr and there were significant bubbles in the reservoir.

Took it for a 5mile drive, provoking the ARB's to work and the system filled fine, no fault showing at all and seems to drive spot on, pretty sure there is some self bleeding going on like most hydraulic systems. I think you should be able to successfully flush the system as fisha advises. I think it will change all the oil after just a few flushes...

The reservoir with built in filter is a service item, I think every 60,000 miles so maybe wort changing it at your last flush....

Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

23rd Mar 2024 7:51pm

fisha

Member Since: 25 Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1350

So just as a follow up to this. Its been 20 months since doing the flush pictured in the first post, and I never got round to changing / flushing the oil since then. I dabbed my finger into the tank now and then over time to see if it were milky, but it never looked like it.

When disconnecting the ACE pipes and letting fluid drain, the fluid came out clear too ... so I'm quite happy that the 2 flushes that were done did a good job of getting the old fluid out quite well. V8 or else ...

9th Sep 2024 7:44am

hmallett

Member Since: 21 Jan 2024
Location: Mid-Wales
Posts: 59

2013 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Firenze Red

It's nice to see a follow up to a post after some time, so that people who later find it can be reassured that the fix worked well in the long term.

9th Sep 2024 9:10am

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