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pcourtney



Member Since: 14 Jan 2020
Location: Stansted
Posts: 804

England 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Sumatra Black
Brake Fluid Change every 36 months

Have just seen that it's reccommended to change the Brake Fluid every 36 months, the Brake Hose recall was done on my car about 6 years ago, so I'm well overdue, but those Brembo 6 pots and Greenstuff brake pads still work well enough Smile

does anyone know how many litres I need to buy, and I presume the ordinary Comma DOT 4 is still the correct one to buy ?

Post #646347 24th Oct 2022 9:04am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 3187

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

According to some flushing the brake fluid on these cars is not so easy - plenty of info on here so do a search. I ended up getting it done by a specialist indy. Make sure the bleed nipples on the fronts are not seized before you have a go at it. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #646351 24th Oct 2022 9:35am
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
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DoT4 is correct, personally I'd push 0.75l through each of the front calipers and 1.0l through each of the rears, using a pressure bleeder (i.e. pressurise the brake fluid reservoir, not vacuum the bleed nipples), I've been doing it that way for many years on JLR vehicles and others with no issues, problems seem to occur when changing components or not using sufficient pressure (2.0 bar seems to be the 'sweet spot') although I've yet to suffer any 'comeback' visits for brake concerns using the above methods.

Post #646352 24th Oct 2022 10:09am
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pcourtney



Member Since: 14 Jan 2020
Location: Stansted
Posts: 804

England 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Sumatra Black

thank you - I'll order 4 litres of DOT4

I have a friend who has a "Pressure Bleeder" , ex BMW mechanic, so we will have a go and take note of the 2.0 bar being the sweet spot Smile

Post #646356 24th Oct 2022 10:55am
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pcourtney



Member Since: 14 Jan 2020
Location: Stansted
Posts: 804

England 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Sumatra Black

those M10 brake nipple bolts are not budging, the corrosion is shocking, what cheap bolts they used, have got the WRX spray out and sprayed on, will do again in 4 hours, and again at night, hopefully after 24 to 48 hours ( and maybe more WRX) we may get these Censored out of the Brembo calipers ( maybe not ) , but worth a try


Post #646371 24th Oct 2022 1:53pm
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pcourtney



Member Since: 14 Jan 2020
Location: Stansted
Posts: 804

England 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Sumatra Black

if I can get those four bolts out, I think I will replace with Titanium ones, the sales blurb sounds good - anyone used them ?

-----------------------------------------
Unrivalled anti-corrosion resistance. Titanium takes over 10 years to tarnish the surface and over 40 years to show microscopic signs of corrosion.

Twice as strong as stainless steel. We only use grade 5 6Al-4V titanium in our bleed nipples. With its high titanium content along with small amounts of aluminium and vanadium grade 5 6Al-4V titanium merges its superior anti-corrosion properties with high tensile strength giving you the strongest and most durable bleed nipples on the market.

Lightweight. Almost half the weight of stainless steel and twice as strong.

No more snapped bleed nipples. Saving yourself £100s in the future. Steel bleed nipples will always rust and seize. Its only a matter of time. Once seized they are prone to snapping when the brakes are bled.

Best case scenario, the snapped bleed nipple can be extracted
Worst case scenario, a new caliper is needed costing many hundreds

Our titanium 6Al-4V bleed nipples will never rust or seize
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Last edited by pcourtney on 24th Oct 2022 4:49pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #646373 24th Oct 2022 1:58pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

It's the seats that corrode more than the threads, I prefer to start drilling before they shear off, if nothing else, you have an un-stressed thread and a guide hole....
Get yourself a good quality M10 x 1.0 second and plug tap to clean the threads with, I've used these before where the taper seat is too pitted to get a good high pressure seal https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274684519152

Post #646395 24th Oct 2022 4:09pm
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Caesium



Member Since: 21 Sep 2021
Location: Essex
Posts: 451

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Santorini Black

pcourtney wrote:
if I can get those four bolts out, I think I will replace with Titanium ones, the sales blurb sounds good - anyone used them ?

-----------------------------------------
Unrivalled anti-corrosion resistance. Titanium takes over 10 years to tarnish the surface and over 40 years to show microscopic signs of corrosion.

Twice as strong as stainless steel. We only use grade 5 6Al-4V titanium in our bleed nipples. With its high titanium content along with small amounts of aluminium and vanadium grade 5 6Al-4V titanium merges its superior anti-corrosion properties with high tensile strength giving you the strongest and most durable bleed nipples on the market.

Lightweight. Almost half the weight of stainless steel and twice as strong.

No more snapped bleed nipples. Saving yourself £100s in the future. Steel bleed nipples will always rust and seize. Its only a matter of time. Once seized they are prone to snapping when the brakes are bled.

Best case scenario, the snapped bleed nipple can be extracted
Worst case scenario, a new caliper is needed costing many hundreds

Our titanium 6Al-4V bleed nipples will never rust or seize
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'd stay well away from titanium into alloy. Porsche used titanium bolts on their split rims and a mate of mine is having the devils own job getting a snaped bolt out. They can't be drilled, they cant be welded onto, they have talked about spark erosion, he's having a bllody nightmare with it.

Steel is fine, just change them every two to three years when you do the brake fluid as that needs to be replaced every 2 years really. Christian.


Current Cars
2011 Range Rover Vogue SE
2020 BMW M4 Competition
2019 BMW X4

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Post #646398 24th Oct 2022 5:29pm
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pcourtney



Member Since: 14 Jan 2020
Location: Stansted
Posts: 804

England 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Sumatra Black

I think you're right, I need to change the brake fluid more regularly, every 24 months, and change the M10 bleed nipple bolts at the same time, its going to be part of my maintainence regime from now on Smile

Post #646403 24th Oct 2022 5:38pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 3187

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Had success in the past drilling out the bore of the nipple and using a stud extractor but it was on cast iron callipers and likley they were not seized as much as they will be in alloy. I'd be wanting to do it on the bench as well and have the tap for a 12mm nipple ready if the threads were beyond chasing out. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #646418 24th Oct 2022 6:53pm
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pcourtney



Member Since: 14 Jan 2020
Location: Stansted
Posts: 804

England 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Sumatra Black

the bench idea is good, and a drilling station to boot - BUT - not without issues, getting out those bolts can be bloody difficult as well - nice blog here on Brembo's on a Suburu - I might be up for it - but Jesus it does seem a tedious time consuming ball ache

https://www.noisymini.com/forester-sti-how...r-threads/

Post #646427 24th Oct 2022 7:40pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 3187

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

The caliper bolts should be easy enough with a good impact wrench. The thread part is steel/steel. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #646687 28th Oct 2022 8:26am
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jagracer



Member Since: 14 Aug 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 113

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Zermatt Silver

One can drill out Titanium. Cobalt drills and lots of pressure and use drill speed as for cast steel. Its awefull stuff to machine, but the right tools will work. Yes you need to take the Calipers off and use a proper drilling machine, or better still, a good universal milling machine. Use wizard machine taps to clean the threads out. A lot of people are seduced by stainless nuts and bolts in the Classic world. Most of the Stainless nuts and bolts one sees advertised are L306, which is soft and Galls into the thread, welding the metals together. Even Stainless High Tensile 13.2 Cap Heads will lock if you do not use graphite on the thread before putting it in. Many people "just try" a Stainless bolt for fit, and it welds itself in and will have to be drilled out. I used to do a lot of Vacuum testing on Stainless vessels, and drilled out many seized bolts over the years. The internals of Nuclear Reactors are a minefield of working with chemically pure Stainless componants. Titanium is fine as long as one knows the pitfalls as well, and I am sure Phoenix in his experience, would agree.

Post #646703 28th Oct 2022 11:16am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 3187

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Just use stock HT steel bolts unless you are thinking of keeping the car for 10+ years.... 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #646713 28th Oct 2022 1:03pm
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Phoenix



Member Since: 16 May 2022
Location: Gone
Posts: 1631

United Kingdom 

jagracer wrote:
One can drill out Titanium. Cobalt drills and lots of pressure and use drill speed as for cast steel. Its awefull stuff to machine, but the right tools will work. Yes you need to take the Calipers off and use a proper drilling machine, or better still, a good universal milling machine. Use wizard machine taps to clean the threads out. A lot of people are seduced by stainless nuts and bolts in the Classic world. Most of the Stainless nuts and bolts one sees advertised are L306, which is soft and Galls into the thread, welding the metals together. Even Stainless High Tensile 13.2 Cap Heads will lock if you do not use graphite on the thread before putting it in. Many people "just try" a Stainless bolt for fit, and it welds itself in and will have to be drilled out. I used to do a lot of Vacuum testing on Stainless vessels, and drilled out many seized bolts over the years. The internals of Nuclear Reactors are a minefield of working with chemically pure Stainless componants. Titanium is fine as long as one knows the pitfalls as well, and I am sure Phoenix in his experience, would agree.

You know what, you're right.
I was trying to think of where S/S fasteners are used on automotive - even on fixed diesel engines - the best I could come up with is exhausts - 409L or 410 for high temperature stuff, and fuel lines in the engine bay, particularly 'crash resistant' parts - mainly 420J1 or J2.
Automotive fasteners are in the main high-carbon steel, usually plated with Zinc or other passivating material or heat-treated for defined plasticity (cylinder head bolts etc.), I can't think or visualise having seen or used any S/S fasteners, for a start, they (306/316) fracture easily, and as you say, gall easily. Galling happens during installation, not removal, either due to lack of lubrication (nickel grease) or over-torquing.

Back to the brake calipers, the Brembo are especially prone to corrosion on the outer bleed nipple due to.... excessive washing. Water is forced into the bleed nipple when jetwashed and sits there, quietly eating into the seat and bleed nipple, yes, there's galvanic corrosion as well but in the main, trapped water and the heating/cooling causes most of the issues.

Personally, I'd replace the bleed nipples every other brake fluid change for OEM parts, there's no reason to use Titanium - otherwise it'd be standard equipment. I've seen 10-12 year old vehicles with the original bleed nipples & calipers still in good condition, but they have had a BFC every 2 years (and haven't been 'detailed' to within a millimetre of their brakes...)

One of the things I do for 'fun & profit' is TiG & Oxy-Propane brazing & welding - mainly repairs to sh**y castings, I do like to keep my eye in by welding dissimilar metals, Titanium is a challenge but I've successfully brazed a M8 bolt to a seized Ti bleed nipple for removal - I'd never recommend using them unless you just like the colour....

Post #646744 28th Oct 2022 9:15pm
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