Extract from DT today

"Electric vehicles will be more expensive to run than petrol equivalents from October as the latest price cap hike punishes drivers for going green.

The unit cost of electricity will nearly double under new energy prices released yesterday, taking it to 86p per kWh, up from 56p. Petrol prices have fallen in recent weeks and stand at £1.70 per litre, in comparison.

As a result, it will cost more to travel long distances in an electric car than a petrol one – even before factoring in higher purchase prices for greener vehicles.

The owner of a Jaguars i-PACE, an electric SUV, would spend £99 more to travel the same distance as a driver in the petrol equivalent, the Jaguar f-PACE, according to calculations by breakdown service, the RAC." 2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

But of course most EV owners will charge at home on 7.5p kWh and most EV's will manage at least 4 miles per kWh. Making the cost 1.87p per mile.

Lets say 30 mpg on petrol @£1.74 per litre thats 26p per mile in fuel. Add in servicing, road tax etc and it's still way cheaper to run an EV.

The average price for rapid public charging is 60p kWh, so that works out at a whopping 15p per mile (even using the OP's incorrect figures its still only 21p per mile), still a good amount less than petrol. There are of course many places that offer free charging which makes it even cheaper, I havent seen any petrol stations giving free fuel!

Yes EV's cost more initially but theyre worth more at the end and depreciate more slowly than ICE equivalents. The total cost of ownership is lower by miles than ICE vehicles. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

If you're comparing like for like then you're looking at the F-Pace S (slightly less power) or the F-Pace SVR (more power) and neither of those will be anywhere near the I-Pace for long distance running costs. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 5.0 SC Autobiography in Indus Silver with Jet/Ivory Interior
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

You also have to factor in the potential cost of a replacement battery after the warranty runs out. Tesla were asking close to $20k on an out of warranty model S, which would write the car off in most cases.

So for me, while the idea of an EV is good, they are still far from reliable and cost effective in the long run.

No idea where you can get electricity for 7.5p per KWH. Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

7.5p is what we pay to charge the car. Octopus Energy. <2p per mile and free charging in a number of places locally. And there are plenty of EVs outside of warranty by many years still on their original batteries. I'd hazard about 99% of them! 2016 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate
<gone>2009 FF Vogue TDV8 Buckingham Blue</gone>
<gone>2015 BMW 520D SE (not my favourite car)</gone>
<gone>2009 D3 HSE Galway Green</gone>

Flashman wrote:

You also have to factor in the potential cost of a replacement battery after the warranty runs out. Tesla were asking close to $20k on an out of warranty model S, which would write the car off in most cases.

Quote:

So for me, while the idea of an EV is good, they are still far from reliable and cost effective in the long run.

Quote:

No idea where you can get electricity for 7.5p per KWH.

Flashman wrote:

You also have to factor in the potential cost of a replacement battery after the warranty runs out. Tesla were asking close to $20k on an out of warranty model S, which would write the car off in most cases.

So for me, while the idea of an EV is good, they are still far from reliable and cost effective in the long run.

No idea where you can get electricity for 7.5p per KWH.

Wow, seemed to hit the EV fanboys raw nerves. 4 hours of charging a car on a normal household supply will give you very few miles, and before you state just install a fast charger, these are not possible for many households and also cost a fair whack. I also bet the free car park supplies will change soon when the unit prices keep rising. Commercial prices per kWh are far higher than the capped Ofgem rates.

I am not saying the future is not EV based, and that ICE is best, but there are so many issues that have to be ironed out before it can genuinely be seen as a logical, financial and reliable alternative.

Charger network needs to be improved, lithium batteries need to be made more environmentally friendly, standardised charging connections, recycling and repairing cells needs to be commonplace and easy to do etc. etc. etc. At the moment we seem to have a free for all with many competing systems and no common solution. Also cobalt and lithium are in short supply and rely on some questionable supply sources (Congo child labour)

Also, give it a few years and there will be new battery technology replacing lithium making current EV values collapse and hard to service.

On another point, the more electric cars get sold the more pressure there will be on the Govt to tax cars by the mile to make up for the loss in fuel duty. So any savings per mile will be short lived. Even the London Congestion Charge will start charging electric cars soon! Even though it was brought in to help deter polluting cars and nothing to do with congestion.

Anyway I did not post for an argument, but to just state that the ICE is not dead just yet and the possible future step of EV needs a fair bit of ironing out and investment and the OP's point that costs to run an EV rising is a very real concern when comparing costs of vehicle and per mile travel. Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

7.5p is only available for 4 hours a day, so c110 miles of range. Fine for a lot of people, but wouldn’t work for me which really pushes up the cost per mile. You also have to take into account the cost outside those 4 hours, so all your other electricity requirement plus any range above 110 miles. They want 39.35p per kWh if I signed up now vs my current rate of 27.63, so 42% more expensive. People on older deals may have better rates? At the rates I’ve seen, quoting less than 2p per mile for running an EV isn’t true, even if 100 miles charge a day works for you, you have to take into account the extra cost of running your household.

I’ve not run the numbers to be 100% sure, but I’m fairly confident staying with my current provider could be cheaper even if I ran an EV.

As I’ve said before, as a company car or even leasing one through a green salary sacrifice scheme makes sense, but otherwise the huge savings just aren’t there. Not when you take into account the level of depreciation (in £ not %), charging away from home, increasing electricity prices etc.

Range would be an issue for me too, 300-400 miles pretty much resolves that, but that’s got to be 15-16 hours charging time at home…I wish I was at home that long in the week!

Going back to cost….let’s assume a 115 kWh battery for a 400 mile range and to make my case better, you need to charge that in one go… on Octopus that would cost £36 and on my tariff it would be £31.78. Even dropping to an 85kwh battery, £24.27 vs £23.48. Then all your other electricity usage wou,d be 40% more! MY23 Panamera E-Hybrid
MY19 SDV8 Autobiography - Sold

Quote:

Wow, seemed to hit the EV fanboys raw nerves. 4 hours of charging a car on a normal household supply will give you very few miles, and before you state just install a fast charger, these are not possible for many households and also cost a fair whack.

4 hours of charging gives me 140 miles so thats fine, not many people do more than 140 miles per day. As for fast chargers, sub £300 so less than your road tax

Quote:

I also bet the free car park supplies will change soon when the unit prices keep rising. Commercial prices per kWh are far higher than the capped Ofgem rates.

Yep they will go the way free petrol and diesel went..... What?........ There hasnt been free petrol and diesel ever..... Silly me

Quote:

I am not saying the future is not EV based, and that ICE is best, but there are so many issues that have to be ironed out before it can genuinely be seen as a logical, financial and reliable alternative.

Quote:

Charger network needs to be improved

Quote:

lithium batteries need to be made more environmentally friendly

Quote:

standardised charging connections

Quote:

recycling and repairing cells needs to be commonplace and easy to do etc. etc. etc. At the moment we seem to have a free for all with many competing systems and no common solution. Also cobalt and lithium are in short supply and rely on some questionable supply sources (Congo child labour)

Quote:

Also, give it a few years and there will be new battery technology replacing lithium making current EV values collapse and hard to service.

Quote:

On another point, the more electric cars get sold the more pressure there will be on the Govt to tax cars by the mile to make up for the loss in fuel duty. So any savings per mile will be short lived. Even the London Congestion Charge will start charging electric cars soon!

Quote:

Anyway I did not post for an argument, but to just state that the ICE is not dead just yet and the possible future step of EV needs a fair bit of ironing out and investment and the OP's point that costs to run an EV rising is a very real concern when comparing costs of vehicle and per mile travel.

Martin2 wrote:

7.5p is only available for 4 hours a day, so c110 miles of range. Fine for a lot of people, but wouldn’t work for me which really pushes up the cost per mile. You also have to take into account the cost outside those 4 hours, so all your other electricity requirement plus any range above 110 miles. They want 39.35p per kWh if I signed up now vs my current rate of 27.63, so 42% more expensive. People on older deals may have better rates? At the rates I’ve seen, quoting less than 2p per mile for running an EV isn’t true, even if 100 miles charge a day works for you, you have to take into account the extra cost of running your household.

I’ve not run the numbers to be 100% sure, but I’m fairly confident staying with my current provider could be cheaper even if I ran an EV.

As I’ve said before, as a company car or even leasing one through a green salary sacrifice scheme makes sense, but otherwise the huge savings just aren’t there. Not when you take into account the level of depreciation (in £ not %), charging away from home, increasing electricity prices etc.

Range would be an issue for me too, 300-400 miles pretty much resolves that, but that’s got to be 15-16 hours charging time at home…I wish I was at home that long in the week!

Going back to cost….let’s assume a 115 kWh battery for a 400 mile range and to make my case better, you need to charge that in one go… on Octopus that would cost £36 and on my tariff it would be £31.78. Even dropping to an 85kwh battery, £24.27 vs £23.48. Then all your other electricity usage wou,d be 40% more!

I do find that many people reporting bullshit and major concerns over battery life, charging points etc are people that have not experienced it first hand and are simply repeating hearsay without checking the facts first. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

I drive both an ICE and an EV. I don't consider myself a fan boy but I have been very surprised by the EV. Are they for everyone? Of course not and nobody is suggesting that. But the sort of FUD I see regularly posted on this forum does frustrate me. Why can't people just see past this sort of nonsense?

We've done about 20k miles in our EV over the last year or so and probably saved £3k on fuel even against an economical ICE.

If you're doing more than 600-700 miles a week or can't get a charge point installed then it probably doesn't make sense today.

But for many people it's a great option. Don't try and pretend the economics don't make sense. 2016 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate
<gone>2009 FF Vogue TDV8 Buckingham Blue</gone>
<gone>2015 BMW 520D SE (not my favourite car)</gone>
<gone>2009 D3 HSE Galway Green</gone>

Flashman wrote:

Also cobalt and lithium are in short supply and rely on some questionable supply sources (Congo child labour)

MikeO wrote:

I drive both an ICE and an EV. I don't consider myself a fan boy but I have been very surprised by the EV. Are they for everyone? Of course not and nobody is suggesting that. But the sort of FUD I see regularly posted on this forum does frustrate me. Why can't people just see past this sort of nonsense?

We've done about 20k miles in our EV over the last year or so and probably saved £3k on fuel even against an economical ICE.

If you're doing more than 600-700 miles a week or can't get a charge point installed then it probably doesn't make sense today.

But for many people it's a great option. Don't try and pretend the economics don't make sense.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Absolutely, all what MikeO said  BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6