Hi all
Could really do with some direction. It’s Sunday, it’s raining. Nothing on telly! Grab a coffee and sit and have a read of this!
2004 TD6.
Started getting brake pedal creeping slowly away as help foot on brakes (at lights etc).
Checked fluids and for leaks but was all good. Loved with it for a week. Then started to drop away as you approached a corner. Still stopped and slowed down but no confidence in pedal.
Tried the servo test (start up with foot on pedal) and it was fine as dropped away an inch when car started.
Brought a 2nd hand Master Cylinder and servo from reputable sale.
Split the master cylinder and fitted to my servo in the car.
Tried pumping pedal but was solid. When I fitted it I didn’t line it straight and the servo “rod” had locked up . Loosened the cylinder and reseated. Pressure bled brakes, NSF, OSF, NSR, OSR. And one of the rear flexi pipes started leaking.
Replaced both rears.
Bled and fired car up. Pedal was rubbish as if no servo.
Checked vacuum and all ok. Seems when I fitted cylinder crooked it had damaged the servo.
Swapped servo out today (confirmed the old one was u/s)
Lots of bleeding but I now have the pedal travelling half way and then brakes kicking in.

Other than keep trying to bleed, anyone any suggestions?
Oh and now brake lights stuck on (but I will suss that out later)

No leaks. Pads are fine. Servo has vacuum. Pedal drops the inch when start car up (servo test)

Thanks all. At a loss where to look now!!
Terry Accept, some days your the pigeon, some days your the statue!

Is the length of the servo pushrod compatible with your servo?
Is the push rod adjustable in length?

The servo and Master cylinder were off a 2005 TD6 and came complete. So should be same as mine.

I did wonder if there was any adjustment on the travel. But can’t seem to find any Accept, some days your the pigeon, some days your the statue!

I don’t know about these cars but l seem to remember adjusting the push rod length on a discovery l had. Can’t remember why though.
The adjustment was at the pedal end of the pushrod via a threaded bar with a locknut.
If it isn’t on a RangeRover that’s not your problem.
Can’t think why else you have a problem other than as you say air.
Just a thought, the replacement servo is in exactly the same place l assume ie no spacer washers etc crept in anywhere.

Just been and checked (the servo I took off) doesn’t look like any adjustments.
No extra spacers I can see.

It deffo feels like air. But absolutely no resistance until peddle half way down. Then brakes kick in. Have noticed if you keep the pressure on the peddle whilst running the peddle does still creep away under foot.

The pipes lead to a unit bolted to the OSF wing. And also to a square block on the Near side before running to the callipers. Wondering if there is bleed points anywhere near them? Accept, some days your the pigeon, some days your the statue!

No expert, but do you have to put the ABS unit in to bleed mode to get all the air out?

No idea other than that, or even know if you only do that in certain circumstances.

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

If that’s a thing, then could well be?

As I say, no leaks, no air leaks (can’t hear any). Just peddle travels half way before any pressure. From then on it does stop the car fine. But peddle does continue to creep away under pressure Accept, some days your the pigeon, some days your the statue!

https://workshop-manuals.com/landrover/l32..._bleeding/ 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

70.25.02
Bleeding of the brake system can be carried out
using the procedures given on TestBook/T4, or by
following the manual procedure given below.
Check
1. The following procedure covers bleeding the
complete system but where only the primary or
secondary circuit have been disturbed in
isolation, it should only be necessary to bleed
that system. Partial bleeding of the hydraulic
system is only permissible if a brake pipe or
hose has been disconnected with only minor
loss of fluid.
WARNING: If any components upstream of
brake modulator, including the modulator
itself are replaced, the brake system must
be bled using the procedure on TestBook/
T4, to ensure that all air is expelled from the
new component(s).
Adjust
1. Raise front and rear of vehicle.
WARNING: Do not work on or under a
vehicle supported only by a jack. Always
support the vehicle on safety stands.
2. Check all pipe and hose connections are tight
and there are no signs of leakage.
3. Top-up fluid level in brake reservoir to 'MAX'
mark.
+MAINTENANCE, PROCEDURES,
Fluid reservoirs.
WARNING: Do not allow dirt or foreign
liquids to enter the reservoir. Use only new
DOT 4 brake fluid from airtight containers.
Do not mix brands of brake fluid as they
may not be compatible.
4. Attach bleed tube to front brake caliper bleed
screw on passenger side, submerge free end in
a clear container containing brake fluid.
5. Apply pressure to brake pedal several times,
then apply steady pressure.
6. Loosen bleed screw to release brake fluid and
air. Allow pedal to return unassisted.
7. Depress brake pedal steadily through its full
stroke and allow to return unassisted. Repeat
procedure until a flow of clean, air-free fluid is
purged into container, then whilst holding pedal
at end of its downward stroke, tighten bleed
screw to 14 Nm (10 lbf.ft)
CAUTION: Ensure the fluid in the reservoir
is maintained between the minimum and
maximum levels throughout the bleed
procedure using new brake fluid.
8. Top up brake system reservoir.
9. Repeat procedure at each wheel in the
sequence shown.
(RHD: 1.LF 2. RF 3. LR 4. RR)
WARNING: Braking efficiency may be
seriously impaired if the incorrect bleed
sequence is used.
10. Remove tube from bleed screw and fit bleed
screw dust cap.
11. Apply brakes and check for leakage.
12. Remove stands and lower vehicle.
13. Road test vehicle. Check brake pedal for short
firm travel when brakes are applied. 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Thank you so much buddy.

That is the process I followed (albeit with a pressure bleeder)

Now left wondering if either a) the guaranteed good master cylinder (it was from a very good source) is u/s.
Or b) I need this “test book bleed” option done to it?
I only have a Icarsoft. Guessing that’s no good! Accept, some days your the pigeon, some days your the statue!

No worries….

No idea mate, never done it. If you still don’t get anywhere, maybe a garage with the test kit won’t charge you too much to do a full bleed?

Not helped with you doing it yourself though….

 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Cheers anyway fella.
Have kinda read the ABS unit may need to be bled on T4 diagnostics?
As you said,Maybe a job for a garage.

Have also read May be able to get the ABS valves to activate by driving and braking on gravel or hill decent etc. worth looking into maybe. Accept, some days your the pigeon, some days your the statue!

According to the above procedure outlined as the master cylinder is upstream of the brake modulator you need to have the system bled using T4 diagnostics.
News to me, l thought provided you didn’t activate the abs you could bleed as you have done.
You live and learn.

Thanks all for the input.
Kind of come to the decision I have 4 options if there is air in the ABS module (which I guess there is as fitted a dry master cylinder)

1) Dealer/Indie
2) manually try to activate the ABS via driving it on wet grass with HDC on and in low? Maybe a trouser leg rolled up?
3) Buy a IID unit that bleeds brakes. Is the Foxwell 520 the cheapest with brake bleed?
4) try bleeding the modulator with pressure bleed and crack pipes on top of modulator? Anyone succeeded with this. Engine running or off?

Cheers
Tel Accept, some days your the pigeon, some days your the statue!

I’d just use the hill decent as a first try. No need for low range or wet grass…. Just need a road on a hill… activate it then accelerate and then remove your foot… car should keep to a bit more than walking pace despite the hill. You will hear the ABS clicking. 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport