Hi @RRPhil

I now have IID tool so attempted to do as advised. I can't seem to get a feed for EDS 2 solenoid, not sure if I am using the wrong source - any idea if I have selected the right one?

This first screenshot is slowly setting off the driveway, as you can see something funny going on at ~ 1300rpm - signs of slipping? It's still in 2nd gear at this point until ~ 1650rpm.

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have you checked the UJ's you seem reluctant too but if the center bearing went this could have prematurely warn them and these will also give you the symptoms advised.
I had the exact same issue on my Navara it turned out to be the front UJ changed it and all was well. 2012 Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - Current
2014 Navara V6 - Gone
2004 Vogue TD6 - Gone
Grand Cherokee - Gone
Discovery V8 (LPG) - Gone
Discovery TD5 - Gone

Hi, not reluctant at all - there were no obvious signs of the centre prop UJ having any play when I removed it to change the centre bearing.

What other UJ are you referring to?

Also as described above, the vibration is present at the same engine RPM in each gear. The driveshaft (and UJ) would be spinning at a different RPM in every gear (see transmission output shaft readings in graph above), so any issues after the gearbox would surely? present me with the noise at differing engine RPMs which it doesn't.

Also as above, it makes the noise when free revving in neutral, but while coasting down the road. The rear prop will be rotating with a speed directly related to wheel speed, but not related to engine RPM.

I'll try get another graph tonight of the free-revving scenario - it' doesn't do it sat on the driveway, I have to be moving down the road.

apologies i just looked at the set up of the 2012 prop and see there is only 1 UJ on the rear the other articulating joints seem to have a different set up. 2012 Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - Current
2014 Navara V6 - Gone
2004 Vogue TD6 - Gone
Grand Cherokee - Gone
Discovery V8 (LPG) - Gone
Discovery TD5 - Gone

I have a noise that is slowly getting louder as time progresses. It is like a gentle whining which occurs in each gear at about 2000rpm.
I'm suspecting an engine pulley bearing because it is related to ENGINE speed not car speed. Under engine load they are getting force from the belt and under engine braking the force is reversed.
Have you considered this?
I don't know if you can drive with the belt off, power steering not working etc to see if the noise goes away?

@Jayk69 - no worries, you reminded me to do another graph I forgot about

@kevinp - I definitely do have an issue with one of the pulley bearings - not investigated which one yet but I've been collecting parts to do a full pulley/belt change so interesting you say that - thanks for the input. I also suspect the viscous fan has gone (confirmed with the old magazine test plus excessive bearing play) but I wasn't sure if they could cause the vibration symptoms I have been experiencing. The slight fluctuation in revs when pulling away made me suspect torque converter issues, but I could also have two separate issues - pulley bearings/viscous & TC.

Does anybody know if you can run the 4.4 TDV8 without the electro-viscous fan temporarily so I can rule this out? I understand it takes input from a range of sensors so don't want to upset anything.

Chris

I'm slowly getting all the pulleys to do the whole lot. I've got a genuine water pump and tensioner.
Just as an aside, I was sent a pattern tensioner by mistake and the quality of it was awful compared to the genuine one. So I think it's worth getting genuine if you change anything.

Admittedly I was going to get them from Advanced Factors:

https://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/auxiliar...1791-c.asp

Based on their post:

"I have been a Land Rover owner since 2005 (D3 & Sport) and I can assure you I only sell what I would fit to my car, our warehouse has NO ownbrand or white box product in it, The goodies that we sell will all come from suppliers that you can Google (other search engines available) and find out about them, the part numbers we use on the website are the actual supplier part numbers of the products rather than generic numbering that some use to smoke screen where it is coming from.

I held a D3 meet here a few weeks ago along with one of the forum specialists to do some technical work and allow everyone to have a wonder around, we will do that again for each of the forums as I get to know you and you I.

So after all of that, what can you expect.....Wix & Mahle filters (both have LR supply contracts) Brembo, TRW & Jurid braking (we also offer a quality aftermarket brand of Juratek) NGK Glows & Sparks, Firstline & Lemforder Steering & Suspension, LUK & Sachs/ZF Clutch & Flywheels, ZF Autobox service kits, FAG Bearings, Dayco, Gates & INA belt kits and so on.. "

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic18913...ed+factors

Update.

My focus has turned to issues with the secondary turbo based on how repeatable to symptoms are at around 2400rpm upwards.

From the Workshop Manual:

"When the engine operating parameters approach the limits (approximately 2400 rpm under load) of the primary turbocharger, dual mode boosting control software within the ECM begins the switch to parallel bi-turbocharger operation. The secondary turbocharger is brought into operation by the opening of the turbine shut-off valve which allows exhaust gasses to flow through the turbine.

Initially, the secondary turbocharger does not produce a boost pressure to equal that of the primary turbocharger. Therefore, the initial boost pressure from the secondary turbocharger is fed via the recirculation valve into the clean air inlet for the secondary turbocharger. As the secondary turbocharger boost pressure output increases, the recirculation valve is then closed and the compressor shut-off valve opened to increase the boost pressure from the secondary turbocharger which is directed into the charge air cooler."

So my first port of call was the recirculation valve (RV). @Rambles - I remember you saying you changed the compressor shut-off valve actuator (CSOV). Based on recent data logs I was confident the CSOV wasn't the issue, as this appears to open ~3000rpm which is when the vibration stops dead.

I took the charge air inlet valve out last week - collectively the RV and CSOV. There was a lot of pooled oil. I cleaned it up and tested the CSOV - I believe there is an updated version which stops sticking issues but mine was moving freely by pushing the external arm, plus as previously mentioned when this opens the vibration stops. The RV is a 12V solenoid - when 12V applied it opens correctly.

The below log show the CSOV opening correctly ~2988rpm. The vibration occurs between ~2400rpm & ~3000rpm. Based on the above, the ECM should start the bi-turbo process at ~2400rpm by opening the turbine shut off valve but as you can see, this doesn't happen until ~3000rpm, hence why they RV is opening late.

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Hi
I did change the CSOV actuator, it made no difference.
And as you say, it (the rumble) starts at 2400 when the 2nd turbo also comes on line and starts to run smoothly again at 3000
And also, I noted that when the revs have gone up to say 3200, and it is running smoothly, when the gearbox changes up a gear, and the revs drop back into the rumble zone, it STILL operates smoothly
Only after the revs have dropped down below 2400 for a few seconds, does the rumble come back.

So my thought was something is sticking. Once it has opened, it stays open for a while.
If the CSOV wasn’t working properly it would throw an error code.
I have no error codes.

So now I am thinking either of
Turbine shut off valve, or
EGR valve
Is sticking.
The EGR should also operate to close the EGR valve at 2400

But neither are cheap replacement items.
Maybe turbine shut off valve at the back of the 2nd turbo is the easiest option ?

You're right about the revs dropping back into the rumble zone...I've got too many graphs now to sift through but If I can find the one Ill post it up - showing the valves staying open as long as you don't let it drop below 2400rpm (and it doesn't make a noise unless you do and start the cycle again).

I did at first think it could be the turbine shut off valve but as you can see in the graph it opens when it is commanded, at ~3000rpm (the light blue and green matching almost identically). I would have thought it would show say commanded 100% at ~2400rpm and measured 100% ~3000rpm if it was sticking.

Would be very grateful if somebody with a fault free 4.4 TDV8 could log the same as the above graph and post it up to compare.

I have noticed that the MAPT sensor values seem to randomly drop off in some of the graphs as the RPMs rise, so I'm thinking there could also be a boost leak. Boost pressure may be the prompt to open the turbine shut off valve ~ 2400rpm and the @3000rpm threshold may be controlled by other sensors which may be why it's still opening correctly there.

All theories!

I haven't investigated the EGR system yet (other than inspecting vacuum hoses when looking at the vacuum pump).

I think I'll take the donut manifold off next to check for cracks and have a look at EGR system while I'm there. The throttle body & donut looked pretty grim inside so need a clean anyway! Previous owner has already fitted the updated donut silicone hoses.

Small update

I pressure smoke tested the intake plenum and the vacuum system - nothing alarming found and was holding pressure.

Chucked up an error code as the MAPT sensor which measured an out of range manifold pressure so I don't think there is problem with the sensor.

Focus turned to EGR system. The valve appears to be functioning correctly (albeit slightly sticking open when commanded to shut @2400rpm - see light blue line). The main issue as you can see is that the Throttle Actuator is being told to do absolutely nothing. Under any driving conditions I can't get the "Commanded throttle actuator control" value to change from 0 or the "Throttle position error" from ~ 100%. The measured throttle position value fluctuates around ~ 3.5 to 4%.

I think I may be on to something but I can't tell why the ECM isnt commanding the Throttle actuator at any point - I don't think the throttle itself is at fault.

Anybody any ideas?

A couple of similar posts here but with no resolution?

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic47118...t=throttle

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic54238.html

One thing I'm not sure I mentioned is my fuel consumption is horrendous ~ 21mpg!

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If not already done, you might want to remove the throttle body intake hose to see if the butterfly has been closing. Normally there would be an indication of where it was closing to as carbon builds-up on the manifold side.

The inside of the donut can become nearly blocked, especially where the EGR pipe is attached.

Hi Graeme thanks for the reply (I've been looking at some of your past posts recently - see below)

Think I jumped the gun on this one - after more extensive data logs, it appears these are normal values for the TPS and it is fully functioning as it should do. It closes when it should do to create vacuum for the EGR functionality, and the 4.08 throttle position is the % it is closed rather than open. It performs a full close upon engine shut down to stop shudder - but it is default sprung upon again (so I'm not sure whether it performs any runaway protection).

As I had the throttle off I decided to do some cleaning and experimenting. I cleaned the throttle body & took the plenum off too & cleaned as best I could the intake manifold flanges. For the record, whoever believes EGR valves don't affect engine health/performance need to go do the same then report back. Judging by pics of people's MAPT sensors on here I imagine I won't be the only one who's intake looks like below

While I was there I checked the electro-mechanics of the TPS - yes I snapped two of the small screws on the housing as expected so had to drill and tap new holes for some stainless screws which was fun - there is no issue internally and the cogs were immaculate.

I then decided to try eliminate the EGR valve (and any associate leak) which may have been causing this unexplained vibration noise and drop in manifold pressure - so I made a blanking plate. Conscious as per your previous posts Graeme that when you lift off the accelerator the throttle closes (for EGR function) which causes the engine to die, I removed the throttle butterfly plate.

Just been on a test drive and a few things to note:

- the vibration still occurs at ~2500rpm so I think I may have to remove EGR valve from fault finding list
- the engine was noticeably pokier - coupled with the amount of soot-oil I removed from the system though
- it ran fine until things got up to operating temp and it went into Restricted Performance (RP) mode. I can only assume this was due to the temperature sensor (Bank 1 - sensor 1?) on the EGR pipe reading obviously low with no exhaust gases flowing through. There was no error code logged but clearing all ECUs took it out of RP mode.

Next steps.

Back to the drawing board, except I don't think it's EGR related so I think it must be directly related to turbo 2 & recirculation valve actuation.
Regardless, I'll be looking to get the EGR valve properly mapped & blanked off permanently.

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