Yep both should have a internal spring the new ones do for sure. I'm glad my guy knows his stuff.

We broke x2 so far and a drop down tool.

how are you going RR 2005 4.4 petrol
Any spelling mistakes are the fault of spellchecker
Previous MG J2, CITROEN light 15 x 2 gone unfortunately
Present MERC 180e, RANGE ROVER L322, JAGUAR XJS, MERC 280SE, MG F, JAGUAR S-Type 6v 2003, jaguar s-type 8v 2004, Ford Cougar

So we dont cause any engine damage iv got another cam shaft comming. Gonna spin off and replace the gear wheel on that and just swop the cams over then it's just the final assembly

Are you trying to get the vanos units off the cam?

what you mean "spin off" RR 2005 4.4 petrol
Any spelling mistakes are the fault of spellchecker
Previous MG J2, CITROEN light 15 x 2 gone unfortunately
Present MERC 180e, RANGE ROVER L322, JAGUAR XJS, MERC 280SE, MG F, JAGUAR S-Type 6v 2003, jaguar s-type 8v 2004, Ford Cougar

No not trying to remove the vanos units just trying to get the timing gear off the exhaust cam the bolts is well and truly on and wont shift.

I suspect that this is your problem:

Loosen bank 1 & 2 exhaust sprocket mounting bolt. For each exhaust sprocket perform following.
Counter hold exhaust camshaft and loosen exhaust sprocket mounting bolt; left hand thread (T55 torx bit socket 3/8" / 3/8" breaker bar, 27mm open wrench).
Note: Bolt is left hand thread, thus unscrew by turning breaker bar from left to right (clockwise) (car front orientation).
Note: Exhaust camshaft is counter held by locking block. But do not rely on this alone as camshaft can be damaged. Further counter hold camshaft at camshaft hex (27mm open wrench).
Note: Verify tool inserts fully into sprocket bolt head (T55 torx bit 3/8”).
Do not remove exhaust sprocket mounting bolt at this time.

This may also help................

http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures/m62tu_vanos_procedure.htm

tb10 wrote:

I suspect that this is your problem:

Loosen bank 1 & 2 exhaust sprocket mounting bolt. For each exhaust sprocket perform following.
Counter hold exhaust camshaft and loosen exhaust sprocket mounting bolt; left hand thread (T55 torx bit socket 3/8" / 3/8" breaker bar, 27mm open wrench).
Note: Bolt is left hand thread, thus unscrew by turning breaker bar from left to right (clockwise) (car front orientation).
Note: Exhaust camshaft is counter held by locking block. But do not rely on this alone as camshaft can be damaged. Further counter hold camshaft at camshaft hex (27mm open wrench).
Note: Verify tool inserts fully into sprocket bolt head (T55 torx bit 3/8”).
Do not remove exhaust sprocket mounting bolt at this time.

Yep we did that or at least my mechanic did that he has rebuilt a fair few of these engines and and done plenty of timing chains and guides. He always uses a 27mm spanner on the cams as he doesn't fully trust the cam locking tool.
It's just that this cam sprocket bolt just wont shift........ he is pretty sure it being the 1st one on the engine it takes all the torque and over time just tightens its self up.
He was holding the cam with x2 spanners while I used the rattle gun it puts out over 450 foot lbs or torque and still wouldnt shift...yes we know its left handed thread.

It’ll fall out now then

Spare exhaust cam shaft arrived today so this is going back together tomorrow.

Click image to enlarge

as you are replacing the camshaft, i would be checking the camshaft followers and making sure that they collapse
they do get full of carbon and wont operate
if you get new ones make sure they collapse also
i got some new ones, they must have been in stock so long that they had sized up so i returned them
the parts supplier said that's how they are supposed to be
they got me an other set and they were ok RR 2005 4.4 petrol
Any spelling mistakes are the fault of spellchecker
Previous MG J2, CITROEN light 15 x 2 gone unfortunately
Present MERC 180e, RANGE ROVER L322, JAGUAR XJS, MERC 280SE, MG F, JAGUAR S-Type 6v 2003, jaguar s-type 8v 2004, Ford Cougar

Well we didnt need to replace the cam shaft after all. After removing it from the car and with proper force and larger breaker bar applied the cam gear bolt cam out. Happy days. It's all going back together very nicely.