I'm 6 months into the ownership of a L405 P400e. For anyone who doesnt know, the drivetrain consists of a 300hp 2.0L petrol engine and 104hp electric motor with a claimed total power output of 404hp.

When I bought the car, I asked the salesman what happens to the power output when the battery charge drops to 0%. He said that it falls to 300hp because then only the petrol engine is available. I thought that was a bit odd, not to mention a bit dangerous if you go for an overtake expecting the full 404hp experience only to get a measly 300hp. Anyway I did some investigating online and found this https://www.landrover.co.uk/explore-land-r...ained.html

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To ensure that the P400e engine retains sufficient charge throughout a journey, intelligent battery management charges the battery when the vehicle is in motion through regenerative braking and ensures there is no dip in performance with 404hp delivered at all times

I have exactly the same impression. When there's zero battery, the power is reduced. It's true that the engine and regen braking will charge the high voltage battery, but only up to 10%, they say (probably the fuel consumption would be huge otherwise). Also, at standstill, while the engine charges the battery, there's a disturbing low rumble, that the dealer believes is absolutely normal...
But that's not even the biggest problem, I never ever had an electric range of more than 32-35 Km, even when driving like an old person! And, to make things even worse, the real range is actually even less than that!

Typical bullshit given out by most Hybrid manufacturers i.e. 101 mpg, no way and the 404bhp always being available, how can it? if you've used all of the battery then 104bhp is missing, you cant magic the energy out of nowhere.
For the mpg it should be tested on the rolling road or whatever they use nowadays but start with a flat traction battery, some energy can be regained on the braking cycles so it would show the true picture (as true as these tests are). BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

adara wrote:

But that's not even the biggest problem, I never ever had an electric range of more than 32-35 Km, even when driving like an old person! And, to make things even worse, the real range is actually even less than that!

The range is disappointing but overall it isnt a big issue for me. Yes my EV range often shows as little as 21 miles when I leave home in the morning but I'm never going to drive my car in full EV mode because 104hp isnt enough to keep up with the traffic I think what matters is the effect the battery range has on your overall fuel consumption. I have a charger at home and a charger at work and a 22 mile commute between the two. I also do occasional long motorway journeys. According to the dashboard readout my fuel consumption has averaged 59.9mpg over my first 7000 miles which I think is very creditable given that is pretty much half the consumption of previous L494 SDV8. So in that sense the P400e has worked. I just wish it was a bit more fun to drive. In fact what I wish is that there was a nice 6 cylinder petrol or better, diesel engine in the front with the electric motor rather than that rather nasty 4 cylinder Ingenium engine

Surely 300hp is not that bad seems like a load of hp compared to say a tdv8 is pretty spritely on less than 300...? L322 2007 TDV8 3.6

Quote:

Surely 300hp is not that bad seems like a load of hp compared to say a tdv8 is pretty spritely on less than 300...?

The real fuel consumption with zero battery is between 10.5-12 l/100km (27-23.5mpg).
I too charge at home overnight and have a charger at work. The regular 20km (12 miles) commute is done with a very low consumption, true. As I use it for this 99% of the time nowadays, it's OK.

Agreed. I get about 25mpg when the battery charge is 0%

Reading this reminds me of when I went mad and bought a Prius a while back. I really dislike underpowered vehicles with screaming engines. I traded that one in for a Mercedes AMG GLS63 aka the anti Prius.

I also find that because you’d have to push it harder I find it less relaxing to drive.

The factory equipment that lifts the phev battery is rated to max 160 kg, so I presume the battery is less than 160 kg. I took a photo of it on my factory visit.

I have never had a loss of power even when range is 0 miles (you cannot see % battery whilst the engine is running). Apparently at 0 miles EV range there is 20% hidden battery coupled with more aggressive engine recharging. That definitely jives with my driving experience. In fact, at 0 miles ranger I always have EV at slow speeds, like pulling away from lights for a few seconds before the petrol kicks in. There’s battery power there, alright.

My car never screams even at full pelt. It may sound uninspiring, like a 4 pot hot hatch which is a bit growly but never menacing, but it doesn’t scream and the usual L405 sound insulation makes it very subdued which, presumably, is a source of annoyance for 5.0 owners.

I get 21 miles indicated EV range in winter, at least, at 22C internal temp, hot stone massage, heated wheel and stuff in slow moving London traffic I reckon it’s more like 16 miles actual range in real life. In the Alps I got 46 miles EV... downhill! 😂. But for me, 16 or 21 miles EV is ample. I have 7kw charger at home, it’s easy easy even without a driveway (I can always park outside my front gate).

Last time i looked my average mpg over 5500 miles is 28 mpg or something like that. It’s of little interest to me beyond being a ‘fun fact’. Recently the last five journeys I took were 124.7 mpg (11.9 miles), 250+mpg (2.1. miles), 250+mpg (3.8 miles), 20.9 mpg (sic, 3.4 miles), 250+mpg (6.6 miles) which is over 27.8 miles total distance covered so... you do the math if economy is important to you!

As flawed as it is, this drivetrain is not just meeting my expectations, it’s actually exceeding them in all but economy. I think it’s fab and I would order it again in a heartbeat. L405 P400e Autobiography (MY2020)... Silicon Silver / Espresso

ilard thanks for your input. When I was ordering my RR back in summer of last year (a right PITA that was) IIRC the P400e was about 250kg heavier than the D300 version which I was also considering. In truth I went for the P400e not because I preferred it (I couldnt actually get a test drive in either vehicle) or because I wanted to save polar bears but because the contract hire rate was cheaper and the dealer offered me a stock car. Having done so though I decided to do it properly by having 7kW chargers fitted at home and work. If I'm honest I'm getting fed up plugging/unplugging the car twice a day and I certainly miss the performance of my previous car, a RRS SDV8 so the jury is out for me so far as what I replace this car with when the time comes

Interesting to read about the 20% hidden battery capacity but it seems very hidden to me! With 0 miles battery left, the petrol engine in my car fires up immediately on start up and seems to power the car 100% from the off, unlike when there is battery miles left when the car fires up in electric mode and drives off in electric mode. Its feels to me like, when there are battery miles left, the electric motor does most of the work with the petrol engine only firing up when required but, when there are zero battery miles left, the petrol engine does most of the work with the electric motor only contributing when required. It also sounds like, when there are zero battery miles left, the petrol engine is having to work a lot harder and the engine note is more intrusive as a result

Must admit I'm suprised how high your overall consumption is at 25mpg. As I said, mine is less than half that but then I am plugging in both at home and at work. In truth though I'm not doing many longer journeys other than commuting thanks to Covid restrictions so my current mpg probably flatters the car

I said the same on the other thread, but everyone with a hybrid seems to conveniently ignore the cost of electricity and just quotes mpg and compares that to a conventional combustion engined car. If you do a lot of short journeys, then that will still be a lot cheaper than the low mpg you'd get, but cost per mile is the only fair comparison. If you're that bothered of course! MY23 Panamera E-Hybrid
MY19 SDV8 Autobiography - Sold

Martin2 wrote:

cost per mile is the only fair comparison. If you're that bothered of course!

We all have FFRR - what do you think.......  2021 D350 Fifty Edition
2017 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography -
2012 4.4 TDV8 Westminster - Gone, but not forgotten

Martin2 wrote:

I said the same on the other thread, but everyone with a hybrid seems to conveniently ignore the cost of electricity and just quotes mpg and compares that to a conventional combustion engined car. If you do a lot of short journeys, then that will still be a lot cheaper than the low mpg you'd get, but cost per mile is the only fair comparison. If you're that bothered of course!