2012 Orkney Grey Westminster 4.4TDV8 with Ivory interior.........nice!
Alfa Romeo Giulietta
Just one Montesa now, 349 White Wonder
Austin A40 Farina MK2
1975 Morris Marina 1.8TC

For hydrogen.

A couple of weeks back Autocar had a a bit about some mythical EV Bentley and on the front page they had their usual red top headline 'Shock new Bentley' then went on to say it was a 'true GT.' Well it can't be both an EV and a true GT can it?

Let's imagine a journey, shall we call it Coventry to Geneva, over 700 miles. A true GT could do that overnight (AKA Normal Dewiss, E Type, 1963 I think), this thing can't. Drives:
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue - Stornoway Grey
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue SE - Zermatt Silver
1998 BMW E36 M3 GTII

I thought the term "Gran Tourisimo" meant "Grand Tourer" - no EV could ever fall into that category. 2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6

dolph34 wrote:

electric is not the future
.

Quote:

who do you sue?

In my experience either both or whichever one has the deepest pockets and/or highest insurance level  2017 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography
2012 4.4 TDV8 Westminster - Gone, but not forgotten

dolph34 wrote:

End of an era , electric is not the future with the current technology regards batteries. Tesla are mundane in the looks department and given a cold snap the range is pathetic. It's like beta max all over again. I filled up today , drove 270 kilometres and still have a range of over 500 kilometres left , I don't need to plug it in anywhere and can fill up in under 5 mins to travel a further 800 odd kilometers without worry of finding a place to plug it in for a few hours . Horses for courses BUT having a go anywhere ,in any condition , full of electic toys , Range Rover that I dont need to worry about plugging it in anywhere in my travel plans seems the way forward. Electic is in its baby steps and without a major step forward in battery charging and distance is not an option currently ( sic ). I have driven a Tesla in ' mental ' mode or whatever it's called and its mightly impressive for about 10 seconds if your under 15 years old or come to the first corner. . I say this as a 30 odd year superbike rider who enjoys his speed but an electic/ hybrid range rover seems like a chocolate teapot unless you travel less than 10 miles a day and have a charging option after that 10 miles . No disrespect to anyone that has an hybrid FFRR, your money your choice but to be able to open the garage, drive 800 kilometres , fill up again at a plethora of garages and then drive back seems a far better option than planning your route around charging points and charging times. My daughter is at college over 300 kilometres away and I often have to drop everything to go and see her ( my choice,i appreciate but shes my daughter) and I would hate the thought of making that journey on a little engine once the electric had run out .Just my humble opinion and no offence meant to anyone. ( unless your a vegan liberal and then you would have found something offensive regardless )
.

As a kid I fell in love with Range Rover's aged about 4 as my Grandfather had one. Half of the excitement was the sound. Going to be a shame. I see that even on The Trip to Greece, they dubbed the supercharged engine sound over the real engine sound when it was tickling along the beach on the way home. (It was the hybrid model.) 2011 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 TDV8
2003 VW Golf V6 4motion
2001 Range Rover Vogue 4.6
1982 Range Rover in VOGUE
1990 Range Rover Vogue SE
2007 Audi A6 Avant Le Mans Quattro S-Line 3.0 TDI
2007 Skoda Ovtavia 2.0 TDI L&K
2007 GSX-R 750 K7

bigbo wrote:

Very well said, this rush to electric cars is sadly misguided, batteries are not the way forward.
If the same amount of money / effort had been put into hydrogen we would be in a totally different position.

Hydrogen costs roughly the same as petrol and yet has no emissions other than H2O, has roughly the same range, the same fill times so no range concerns. Oh and Fuel cells are cheaper to produce than L-ion batteries and certainly better for the environment.
The government should have pushed retailers to stock hydrogen rather than E10 petrol.

All imho

David

Totally agree.

Hybrids and BEV’s have been a costly distraction in both time and money.

BEV’s have their place for short distance vehicles, but hydrogen is the obvious answer for those who drive longer distances and larger vehicles/commercials and

Tinman wrote:

For hydrogen.

And another Hybrids and EV are a joke they are only fit for short runabout journeys / the school run and there is no way I am paying out £100k for a RR to be a guinea pig that depreciates like a stone - if there is no V8 Diesel option then I will go petrol next time round - I very much doubt that a premium car like a RR will not have a V8 option in one form or another until a decent realistic option to electric is found 2021 L405 Vogue SE 4.4 V8 DIESEL ~ #17

ilard wrote:

I expect an i6 derv with mild hybrid will absolutely be the match for the dinosaur derv V8 in everyday driving.

The Euro 5 4.4TDV8 was a miracle achievement in terms of output, economy and emissions.
And the Euro 6 version SDV8 even more so.

I doubt the new six, whilst within reach of output figures of the SDV8, will produce such low down torque.

I think there is just a psychological attachment to V8s.

Times now are a little similar to what happened in the land of V8s, Australia in the early 80's. Ford dropped their V8s due to oil prices and emissions standards and people went proper mad. You see in Australia, V8s were seen as a birthright. If you had a six it was only because you couldn't afford a V8.

Over on the GM side of the fence, in the late 70's when the Commodore replaced the bigger Kingswood, Holden played the downsize card like a lot of US cars did based the on oil prices etc. Holden turned to Europe for the Commodore, mainly an Opel Reckford which came with a four cylinder engine in Europe. They put straight sixes in it but they kept the V8, unlike Ford's stance. It was a give for forcing a smaller family car on the people.

Funnily enough the Ford camp love a Barra straight 6 these days, especially the youth. With DOHC and turbos and all the rest it's seen as a very desirable and high output unit. Ironically though, the Barra is based on the 60's and 70's six that was looked down on in the 70s

Whist people really wanted the V8, that 70's six was the base engine for the Ford Falcon, the 'bigger the engine the better' logic followed to the next car down from the Falcon, the Cortina. The Cortina was the mid-size car int the range. Mk1 and Mk2 Cortinas were four cylinders same as UK however when the Mk3 came out Ford Australia put the 200ci and the 250ci six which was cool.
Check it out here:
&t=316s

Holden and Ford were in a constant arms race and matched or bettered each other. Holden's mid-sized sedan to match the Cortina was the Torana which was based on the Vauxhall Viva and it came with four cylinder engines and sixes, much like the Mk3 Cortina. Toranas did go like stink with the six:



They wanted to beat Ford at the racetrack so in the 70's a V8 Torana was introduced. The mid-sized two-door version with a 5 litre V8 was pretty bonkers. And it certainly did win races vs Ford.


Without V8s, Ford racing teams had to import US Mustangs and then Sierras like the RS500. The Sierra won the big annual showdown endurance race called Bathurst 1000 with a shock horror four cylinder engine . But then V8s did eventually creep back to Fords as they became better on emissions and were well and truly back by the 90s. Aussies just love a V8. A V8 and a big caravan (or a boat) hooked on the back was the Australian dream.

Anyway, whilst I digress a little into Australian muscle cars, I find it interesting that back then the near demise of the V8 compares with some similarities to now. And, if time travel were possible back to 1985, nobody would never believe the time traveller telling them that in 2020 there are more V8s in cars than ever before. Even a bruiser diesel V8 in a Range Rover that gives 38 mpg and won't dirty a white tissue on the exhaust pipe. Truly a miracle engine. They'd probably also be asking who won the nuclear WW3. Briefly. Then back to the cars..!

Today however, the world is changing even faster than back then - fast and crazy right now - and who knows how long the V8 format will last. Mayor Khan down here in London is forcing me to replace my TDV8 which I would otherwise keep because it's a legendary engine and I love the last of the L322s. Reckon a 5.0 of some type will replace it at the moment.

. Cheers, Greg
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2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

Last edited by GGDR on 5th Apr 2020 2:33pm. Edited 6 times in total

To be fair I’d have an SDV8 any day over the V6 just for the peace of mind that the crank isn’t going to fail and no belts to do, although discounting the weaknesses I’d be happy with the V6 in terms of performance and economy, the early L405s are becoming more and more affordable now.

Go on Greg, join the 5.0 S/C club, you know you want to .

Try & convince a Scania V8 owner operator/driver that anything will beat or even come close to a V8 ! 2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6