I don't know cass, I think the cars are testament to why we stick with them, despite components failing, or terrible dealer experiences.

Somehow I think you need to detach (if you can) the dealer experience form the car. I've made big purchases are can't remember when something hasn't gone a bit wrong. I just accept that as cost of doing business personally. Whether car, house boat etc.

The cars themselves keep us coming back. And keep us fixing them.

Reports from the german side of things aren't all tickety-boo either.

Could the dealer experience be better? Absolutely!
Could the reliability be better? Hell yes.

But the car makes it all:

Totally.
Worth.
It. Cheers, Greg
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

Perhaps we forget sometimes just how sophisticated an L405 really is.
1. It will ford almost 1metre of water.
2. It will cruise all day at well over 100mph.
3. It will climb almost 60 degrees.
4. It’s electronics will auto park, auto dip headlights, recognize speed limits, locate and direct you almost anywhere in the world both on and off road, maintain your lane and distance from car in front as well as sense and photo almost everything around you, lock and unlock doors and hatch from proximity and distance, heat, clear and wipe windows automatically, adjust seats, mirrors and steering wheel for three drivers, heat, cool, angle, massage and vary seat backs, cushions and base and tell you literally hundreds of pieces of info regarding engine, transmisssion, drivetrain and suspensions system.
5. It will make adjustments to braking, transmission, suspension and steering depending on speed, underfoot conditions and weather on snow, sand, rocks, grass, deep ruts and interstates.
6. It will keep you at exactly the right temperature in over a 100 degreeC range of temp outside and carry dogs, tow horses and pack lots of stuff.
7. It will protect you in the event of accident or impact from almost 360 degrees.
8. It’s great fun to drive.

While there are many cars that do some of the above I am not sure there are many which do all of it as well including Gwonderwagons, Landbruisers. and VW Bendandgos.

At the same time it’s not surprising when it hiccoughs given the complication and abuse capability of all of the above.
So in summary don’t worry, be happy, enjoy your truck, ignore the naysayers and let everyone wonder why you have such a big smile on your face all of the time.

Swissomatic makes a lot of good points - and it is certainly true that almost ALL cars develop problems by the nature of their complexity, and the demands of legislation etc. that increase that complexity.

What is clear to me is that FFRR enthusiasts are very similar to TVR guys - you know the cars have issues, but you buy them because when they work, they give you a driving and owning experience that no other car can give you - and you love them for their foibles, their idiosyncrasies, their nonsense, and just the way they make you feel special!

They are loved, not as pieces of engineering, but as guilty pleasures, as imperfect things, almost as humans. Could there be a higher complement to a car?

I would agree with you that all cars develop faults and the more complex they are the more faults will develop.

Its just annoying that it could in many cases be fixed with such little investment - Corrosion do what the others do, galvanise, fasteners - use stainless, brake pipes use non corroding ones. On an £80k plus vehicle any extra would be insignificant.

To keep it positive, theyre a great car, brilliant ideas onboard and a very, very nice place to be. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Once they said i didnt need new pads....

That saved an argument it is better to have and not need then need and not have

We've owned our 2003 L322 M62 V8 for 11 years and taken the mileage from 37k to 102k (not high by any means). It's been no more bother maintenance wise than pretty much anything else. At the moment the only things that don't work are the rear wipers (I'll get around to it!) and the electrically adjustable steering column (can't be bothered). It's got a bit of rust now where the rear arch joins the sill on both sides (common). In the time we've had it it must have done over 50k miles towing a horse box with two big horses in it, all up weight around 2.7t. It only ever broke down twice, once when the plastic coolant header tank exploded and once when the alternator seized.

We bought it AUC from a real bunch of complete clowns of a main dealership. They had one good employee who was run ragged (the workshop manager), everyone else we dealt with was an idiot. And this is where LR's problems lay, the dealerships. That said, pretty much every other premium manufacturer has exactly the same problem, just go to the forums to see the number of 'I'm never buying another xxxx ever again' threads. The only way this will ever get resolved is if we stop using the buffoons and that's not going to happen any time soon is it?

We've got a very good indy near us and we've used them ever since the AUC warranty ran out. Drives:
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue - Stornoway Grey
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue SE - Zermatt Silver
1998 BMW E36 M3 GTII

Positive.... main dealer damaged our plastic towbar cover many months ago. They agreed to replace it. Not so positive... still waiting for them to fix it

Positive... superb, reliable car to look at, drive and own... not so positive... main dealer network experience is all too often not good enough (in our continuos 12 year experience of LR main dealers)... so whilst using the MD network is a necessary evil, its good to have a trusted independent on hand as well!

Ran a 3.6tdv8 10MY for 30k miles over two years and it got me into loving the RR for the odd weekend trip to eat the miles. Comfortable, quiet and just a nice place to be. it needed nothing in the time i had it.

bought a 2012 Westminster 4.4tdv8, 2years or so ago, done 15k miles or so and loving it. refined, comfortable and still a great place to be. ok it had a few frustrating issues when i got it, not starting, restricted performance etc but shes going like a dream now having had some tlc and delighted with her. Cheers

James

When I list out my requirements, I find there isn't anything else that fills my needs.

Luxurious
Rugged
Capable of going far, far off-road
Capable of driving 300 miles without tiring me in the slightest
Adjustable height suspension
Adaptive cruise, lane assist
Large enough to take two big dogs in the boot...
...and still have room for my shooting kit
Hybrid powertrain

Lavazza wrote:

Echo that sentiment, given I collect my 2012 FFRR Westminster on Saturday!

For me.....it's the ride height, the panache of such a great comfortable cabin, and in all honesty I love towing anything with them!!

I\'ve had a few since 2001 and they were all great.

Lately I'm loving soft close doors, and 22" wheels look with a bit of SVO thrown into the mix.

Dealers aren't what they used to be, and I see no loyalty so to me it's all about warranty, and how I'm picked up from the side of the road when it all goes wrong, and tbh it does, but thats not what you've asked for.

I love them, and so want to buy something else, but I'm not richj enough to rectify the mistake when I do that and sell it again for another FFRR.

To me, the best 4x4 in existence. all smug in my new plug!

2021 Westminster Black D300
2013 Vogue SE - gone
Some Porsche Cayenne guff pretending to be a 4x4!!
2006 Vogue
2004 Vogue
2001 Vogue

Big problem

Soft close doors are indeed fantastic, but they really need to come with instructions for the wife!  Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

soft close doors,
for those in the know they are fantastic,
passengers that aren't well.......
i want to punch them when the door slams shut
LOL
by far the most comfortable drive i have ever had
great to look at even when dirty (ocd coming out)
Steve

I did a 500 mile round trip at the weekend, average 37.6 to the gallon for the size of the and the 4.4 V8 it was amazing. It's certainly a very nice place to be and an excellent drive. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

I did a 3 hour round trip in Scotland last Sunday to collect a pair of bargain RR tyres, knowing that 30 minutes after I got back to base, I would need to set off again on a 4 hour drive to England... all just great excuses to spend more time driving a fantastic car that never fails to please

L322 or L405... you won’t do much better if you have a good one