Hi all
This thread is to gather together information about the satnav on these vehicles.
The objective is to get to a point where owners are able to update their map sets.

The facts as currently known.

Please note that I have updated this to use the same terminology as used in the 'Navigation System - Description and Operation' document within the workshop manual to avoid confusion.


The Touch Screen Display (TSD)
These units are made by Denso.
There are two variants of the TSD (certainly in the UK, there may be other variants in ROW)
Single view DNNS035
dual view DNNS036

The physical connectivity to both units is the same.
For the UK, these units have an internal HDD, which holds the mapping data. This may be true for all units, but unclear at this time.

The processor within these units is a Renesas UPD35003MNA. This is an embedded device designed for vehicle applications, has triple Arm Cortex cores, and multiple embedded interfaces.

Updating the mapping data - UK
The following information is taken from the workshop manuals, summarised here.

In the UK, updating is currently a dealer only job.
The manual indicates the dealer will receive a map update from Navteq (now rebranded as HERE).
They will install the update onto their approved update computer (probably a laptop).

For our cars it is necessary to transfer this map set onto an 'External Hard Disc Drive Service Tool'. The drive is called an 'originav160', made by a company called Origin storage. This company specialise in storage solutions, including encrypted drives.
The update computer formats the external drive and copies the data onto it. The update computer detects the drive as a mass storage device (much like a USB stick would be). It is therefore likely to be formatted as NTFS.
This drive is plugged into our cars using what is described as the 'firewire' cable.
UPDATE: See information below regarding the update cable / socket.

Then via the settings menus on the TSD unit the unlock code is entered and the map set updated.
This takes some time (upwards of 30 minutes), and the manual suggests it must be done with the engine running.

It is thought that the unlock code is map set specific, and not vehicle specific.
This is i believe the same as older DVD solutions were - a code supplied with a disc, and not tied to a specific vehicle VIN.


External Hard Disc Drive Service Tool and associated cable
When the external drive is connected to the 'navigation update tool' (laptop), this is done using a USB cable.
When the external drive is connected to the vehicle, this is done using the special 'firewire' cable.

The format of the drive and data is yet to be determined.

The actual connectivity is yet to be confirmed (it may not be firewire, see below).


Vehicle mounted Update Socket
The connector on the L322 is a JAE MX39 USB2 cable mounted connector (referred to as a Relay Connector by JAE).

I have not found an Automotive Firewire specific connector, so it may not be relevant that it is a USB2 style connector. It is worth noting however that the interfaces on the MCU within the TSD Unit is USB2, not firewire...


Updating the mapping data - Other Countries

In some other countries, the update is done via DVD.
I assume this means those vehicles have a DVD drive in the boot like the previous head unit.
This would also suggest the DVD is loaded and left in the drive, but this may not be the case.

CONFIRMATION FROM OWNERS IN OTHER COUNTRIES WOULD BE GREAT PLEASE.


Things that would be great to check
We currently don't know the format of the data on the external update drive. Access to one of these drives is unlikely to be given, so we may have to experiment.
Therefore :
A copy of the mapping data DVD would be great. It doesn't matter which model year, or country / region at this stage.
A copy of the mapping data USB as used on later cars would be great. It doesn't matter which model year, or region at this stage.

Details of the 'firewire' cable necessary to perform the update. It was expected to be a FW400 4 way, but may infact be a USB cable with the specialist JAE connector on one end.

Screen shots of all the settings menus (not just the satnav ones) from other owners from the TSD unit.
To get to these you go to the home menu, press the top centre of the screen for 5+ seconds, then top left for 3+ seconds. If it works a code entry screen will appear (If it doesn't simply try again). Enter 753. the settings menu will appear.
Rather than post all the screen shots here, send me a pm and we can figure out how to gather and store them.
NOTE: these screens have VIN numbers on some of them. You can either block that bit, or we will.


Investigation of the TSD unit
A dual view TSD unit has been purchased .
Information of the MCU will be confirmed, and the hard drive analysed (format, content).

Being able to update the map data without the need to remove the TSD unit is the primary objective.
This is with HERE map data, or open source map sets.
Other options such as determining the possibility to change the OS will also be examined.


Compatibility of the TSD unit to earlier versions/models
This is just a summary, again from information I have gleaned from various sources.
It can be expanded as necessary.

02-05 basic head, basic audio
02-05 basic head, power amp
02-05 basic head, dsp amp (rare)
02-05 highline head (screen), basic audio (rare)
02-05 highline head (screen), power amp
02-05 highline head (screen), dsp amp

basic head units have either cassette, cd, or mini disc slots.
highline head units have cassette slot behind motorised fold down screen, cd changer in glove box, radio module in rear left quarter.

basic audio is provided direct from basic head unit, or from the radio module for highline.
audio using power amp is provided from the amp. It is driven either from the basic head, or the radio module. it has a single connector, and large cooling fins on one face, above the connector.
audio using dsp communicates with the basic head or radio module using I-Bus.The dsp amp has 3 connectors, and cooling fins down both sides.

The wiring on these is significantly different to the later cars, so trying to fit a later screen may be hard work. Certainly harder than installing a double din android head unit.
You can however upgrade your satnav from mk3 to mk4.
The following link provides info about installing a bmw mk4 drive:
https://www.brit-car.co.uk/blog/2013/10/ho...av-system/
2010 maps and range rover splash screen for use with this bmw mk4 DVD drive are also available from https://www.myrangerover.co.uk/mk4-navigat...sh-screen/


05-10 highline head (screen), dsp amp (11 speakers)
05-10 highline head (screen), premium LOGIC 7 amp (14 speakers)

These screens are made by Denso, like the later screens. They share similar (Fakra) connectors for video (there are 3 of these, I'm not sure what they are fed from as I haven't looked at the cct diagrams), and for MOST (which replaced I-Bus), but the other connectors do not match the later screens.

Whether a later head unit could be connected to an 05-10 vehicle may be worth investigating.

The following thread has a diagnostics document from denso for the 05-10 satnav. It is worth reading for general diagnosis of later satnav too, as they seem fairly similar.
http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/post316386.html Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

Last edited by John w on 22nd Aug 2018 11:58am. Edited 6 times in total

Top work John, can't help with anything specific in the list, but if you need anything else let me know  Current: 2011 FFRR Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8
Previous: -
2004 FFRR Vogue 4.4 V8 with LPG
1997 P38 4.0 SE with LPG
1997 P38 4.6 Vogue with LPG

This is great John, thank you for looking into this!

To anyone just joining this conversation, especially coming from here where it started: http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/post486485.html#486485
...a few of us have offered to put some money in a fund so help this process.

The spare head until John bought would have been around £200. Likely there will be some more bits to buy and even trash in the process (maybe).

Let us know if Paypal is ok for you, or another method.

. Cheers, Greg
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
2011 Vogue SE 4.4 with lots of toys in Stornaway

As stated on the other thread, I have the UK DVD System. Happy to supply a copy. John
2008 Stornoway Grey 3.6 Tdv8 Vogue
2005 TD6 Java Black Vogue - Written off!!
GAP iiD BT
2003 Discovery TD5 Auto, Nanocom Evolution - gone to a new home!
MasseyFerguson 152 - No electronics!! - Sold

Thanks for the effort your putting in , do let us know the cost and method of payment you prefer  2015 4.4 AB
GSXR 1000 K5
R1 1998

Weegie, a copy of your DVD would be great please. Send me a pm and we can figure out how to proceed.

Incidentally, I have a bunch of navigation discs for audi, and porsche. I might have to do a comparison to see how they differ, if any.

Thanks all for your offers of financial contributions. Let's worry about that when the unit arrives and we have a clearer picture of what we are into.

I have gleaned a few other nuggets of info from other threads, both on here and other forums.
As we gather facts I will update the original post (makes it easier than having to trawl lots of posts) Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

PM sent. John
2008 Stornoway Grey 3.6 Tdv8 Vogue
2005 TD6 Java Black Vogue - Written off!!
GAP iiD BT
2003 Discovery TD5 Auto, Nanocom Evolution - gone to a new home!
MasseyFerguson 152 - No electronics!! - Sold

Is this closer on the connector

https://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/1110150100_sd.pdf

I think that the connector under the dash is a Type A USB, as GS has said, it looks like a type of male, or at very least it looks like a type A female will fit it.

had one lying around until I did a clear out last week...... have just ordered a cheapo USB 2.0 female to male from Amazon prime so will report if its a snug fit when it arrives. There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

That Molex Std-A connector looks to be the one. Whilst a USB-A connector with the metal shield removed fits the socket, it has nothing other than contact pressure to retain the plug in the socket. This shouldn't be a problem is the vehicle isn't moving and the connectors could be taped together anyway.

It isn't a molex std-a connector, any normal USB connector will not fit, and will not make contact due to the raised bits between the pins.
It is branded JAE and it is an MX39 USB2 connector, but whilst i have found a drawing of the connector I now need to find someone who can supply them. still searching.

Good research! There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Might be able to help?

Further information from:
John Islam, JAE Europe Limited, Coliseum Business Centre, Riverside Way, Camberley,
Surrey, GU15 3YL, UK.
Tel: +44 (0) 1276 404000 Fax: +44 (0) 1276 404010.
e-mail: sales@jae.co.uk
www.jae-europe.com John
2008 Stornoway Grey 3.6 Tdv8 Vogue
2005 TD6 Java Black Vogue - Written off!!
GAP iiD BT
2003 Discovery TD5 Auto, Nanocom Evolution - gone to a new home!
MasseyFerguson 152 - No electronics!! - Sold

Thanks Weegie, I will give them a call
The suppliers I use don't stock this specific connector. Too many toys, not enough time

2011 4.4 TDV8 AB Black

It seems the connector was specifically designed for satnav/ car audioapplications.
http://www.jae.com/jccom/en/connectors/detail/MX39

Mike. G reg 2.5VM Vogue Portofino red 1991- 1999
V reg 2.5td P38 Rioja red 1999- 2006
53 reg td6 Vogue Oslo blue 2006- 2015
11 reg 4.4 TdV8 Vogue SE. Baltic blue 2015- date.
https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic56162...tty+affair

Looks as if your link may give a more recent address than mine, Mike.  John
2008 Stornoway Grey 3.6 Tdv8 Vogue
2005 TD6 Java Black Vogue - Written off!!
GAP iiD BT
2003 Discovery TD5 Auto, Nanocom Evolution - gone to a new home!
MasseyFerguson 152 - No electronics!! - Sold