You may have seen this http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic45832....ne+failure

http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic45312....ne+failure 2021 L405 Vogue SE 4.4 V8 DIESEL ~ #17

Thank you for everyone’s input.

Unfortunately insurance will not cover it as it’s a “mechanical fault” but the nice chap on the other side said a similar thing happened with his Audi and he had to pursue the case all the way to the top to get a replacement free of charge.

I’ve spoken to the Land Rover dealership and they said they can’t give me specifics as to what went wrong etc because they will need to strip the engine, and cheekily said they would need to charge me to do this!!!

May go down the route of an independent engineers assessment of what went wrong!

I’ve also spoken to JLR and a case manager is reviewing the case and supposedly getting back to me today after 48hours but that hasn’t happened so I called up and apparently she’s now left the office lol!

I’m hiring a car but when I said that I will pursue this case further and gain reimbursement from them they said that legally they don’t have to provide me with a replacement.

Not looking good!

So I’ve just received a video link of a technician walking under the car and pointing to a hole in the engine that is behind the starter motor and saying this is where the “internals of the engine have come through” and “a new engine is required”.

But that’s it

This has just got out of hand.

Having decided not to pay for an extended warranty, the manufacturer has still offered to stump up 40% of the cost of a replacement engine, something that they are under no obligation to do and a pretty generous offer. I wouldn't expect this from any manufacturer and you need to bite their hands off.

However, looking at several posts, from several different people here, there seems to be a presumption that the manufacturer's liability is without end and if the manufacturer won't pay, then the dealer should. Since when did we stop taking some element of responsibility and buy a warranty if we want extended cover?

Now, the dealer has diagnosed a problem and has declined to spend probably an unpaid couple of days of workshop time to remove and dismantle the engine, with the only likely outcome that any further information gleaned would then, likely as not, be used against Land Rover and/or themselves. May I assume that you'd then like it reassembled and handed back as well? That would be another couple of days of unpaid workshop time. And you'd like a free loan car too?! And you think that they are being cheeky?

These are not cheap cars to run, either new or used and if you choose to run one without a warranty, then there may be a day of reckoning.

Last edited by Red Merle on 20th Jun 2018 5:01pm. Edited 1 time in total

Cheers Red Merle for the great insightful and constructive response

You're welcome.

Red Merle wrote:

However, looking at several posts, from several different people here, there seems to be a presumption that the manufacturer's liability is without end and if the manufacturer won't pay, then the dealer should. .

Is that me Red?

If so... I’m of the view, the manufacturers liability for faulty manufacture /design and the dealer retains responsibility& is almost without limit (6 years) regardless of warranty or not.

Some of the other links showed this fault back in 2014???? So the dealer should know when sold. Check I’m working from memory... not so good nowadays.

I should also ask if the car was serviced tween buying at28k and 48k miles

However

I’m also of the view legal action is a pain in the backside and really not worth the candle.

Bill Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

I think 40% from LR is a generous offer.

However, there was a statement that the dealer put the wrong oil in during a service and later called the car back in to rectify that - it is only for that reason that I'd be pushing them for a contribution.

I'd agree that stripping the engine to identify the cause is likely a waste of time & money - and a loan car - well, that's what the warranty is for......

Just my pennies worth, the wrong oil is a big thing and proof of this is essential. I disagree with others that an engine of 48k should not be covered under a general liability but I'm not familiar with the law. Obviously if the engine was modified or altered from standard or serviced incorrectly then that's completely different. I have a customer who get a new E class every 4 years which means he has one year without cover. A timing chain snapped 6 months out of warranty on the second to last one and Merc ireland replaced the engine as a sign of goodwill. This took one call and they couldn't do enough for him. We are talking about a conrod letting go at 48k, not an alternator or a turbo issue.

Again I appreciate the warranty has expired but this is beyond the norm in my opinion. 2015 4.4 AB
GSXR 1000 K5
R1 1998

Can anyone who's not posted or has posted maybe just put themselves in the shoes of a person without a car that on the fair side, shouldn't have gone pop.....and then ask would they like to stump up 10k. I think you'd all say no, so I get the warranty not being there but I think we'd all like some recourse from a body that probably has bigger pockets than ours. all smug in my new plug!

2021 Westminster Black D300
2013 Vogue SE - gone
Some Porsche Cayenne guff pretending to be a 4x4!!
2006 Vogue
2004 Vogue
2001 Vogue

Personal opinion: This would be pretty straightforward for any company seriously interested in customer service. Here we have a 5 year old car with only 48k miles on it and FSH. The engine has suffered a catastrophic failure, which clearly it shouldn't have. It has nothing to do with legal responsibilities, quite simply LR should be all over this not only paying for the repair in full, but carrying out a comprehensive investigation to find out what went wrong so that they can prevent it happening again. Oh, hang on, of course, LR know full well what went wrong, it's happened on numerous occasions before with this engine type, hence why they are trying to run away from their crystal clear moral obligations.

I may have got this wrong, but I seem to recall reading that LR won't cover this issue under extended warranty because it's a design fault and these are not covered. So, even if the OP had an extended waranty they would still be in the same position.

If this is indeed the case, then the whole sorry saga is utterly reprehensible, and where indeed is the forum LR rep? Probably banned by LR from getting involved.

So, LR, please explain anything I've got wrong. Drives:
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue - Stornoway Grey
2010 FFRR TdV8 Vogue SE - Zermatt Silver
1998 BMW E36 M3 GTII

A warranty doesn't cover normal wear & tear - so I guess by definition only covers failures that shouldn't have happened......

You decline the warranty & you're taking on the risk of a big failure - I didn't extend the warranty on mine & decided to roll the dice.

I think that where you have the warranty AND a full MD service history, then you're covered - with just a MD history, 40% seems the going rate, and without a history, I don't know.

I went Indy with the services too - I'm hoping that the saving there + no warranty premium is greater than any outlay for failure - I'll probably keep the car long enough that the residual value difference is small anyway.

Last edited by Alistair on 21st Jun 2018 1:09pm. Edited 1 time in total

RVBush......an excellent and balanced summary, and very true.

But what does that matter to a multi billion pound company when it comes to replacing a 10K engine?  David

Please let me know if my comments upset you, I may wish to upset you again.

rvbush wrote:

Personal opinion: Oh, hang on, of course, LR know full well what went wrong, it's happened on numerous occasions before with this engine type, hence why they are trying to run away from their crystal clear moral obligations.

RVBush, well said.
Also LR should be providing a replacement engine at cost less 40%. Not retail price. They have already had their profit 48k miles ago.
Its not good enough. 2007 Vogue TDV8 in Zermatt Silver with Charcoal