I do worry that drivers of modern cars have lost or are losing the simple skills of being able to do a hill start or parallel park, or even to manoeuvre a car without parking bleepers.

Like many of you lot, I took my test in an age when cars simply didn't have these things. BSM were using the Metro as learner cars and I had a 1984 Fiesta 1.1L in 1988 when I took my test. I wasn't until my 4th car, nearly 10 years later, that I had the passive safety of ABS in a Peugeot 405 Mi-16. That was also my first car with power steering, electric windows and an engine without a carburettor.

My 110 still does without most things these days, but that's not a problem as I can still do things manually without worry.

My Mustang, with a foot-brake high up on the side of the footwell is the trickiest. To park on a hill, I need to open my looooong door to give me space to move my left leg way, way up to get to the parking brake pedal. Closing the door is easiest with the window open for better leverage. Then I need to reach a long way forward to release the brake with the under-dash pull-lever whilst simultaneously juggling throttle and clutch. Si. <This is my name.

I eat rat poison.

A man ain't truly been insulted until he stands buck naked in front of a woman and she didn't even notice. Or care.

^^ that'll teach you to go for the complicated three peddle version...or should I say 4 peddle If it's any consolation I have a 4 peddle Mercedes ML  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

miggit wrote:

Hill assist..... isn't that another way of saying Automatic gearbox?

What I want to know is, is the emergency stop still part of the driving test? and do they disable the ABS before hand? Cos when I took my test they hadn't started fitting ABS to anything other than the Jensen FF, and I had to use a Renault 6

Yes it's nice to have driver aids like cruise control..big help with average speed cameras, but if it was to go wrong..... electronic faults in a ffrr, Never I'd still be able to stop in an emergency, as I know what to do if the wheels lock up..... Would you? and mores to the point would the spotty teenager behind you?

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I presume you're not disabled, as I am sure some disabled drivers would find these things invaluable

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Have you actually tried the park assist on a L405? By the time it's found a space big enough you'll find a coach has nipped in before you Laughing

Hill Assist does not put the bloody brakes on going down hill.... That is HILL DECENT CONTROL.... hill assist disengages the handbrake when you step on the loud pedal  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

It's SatNav that I worry about more. The next generation seems to have very little sense of direction and an aversion to maps (though it might just be my kids). My 21yo son will get to the end of our road and ask "get or right?".

rvbush wrote:

Quote:

I presume you're not disabled, as I am sure some disabled drivers would find these things invaluable

Please don't go down that route, this has nothing to do with special equipment for those, who through no fault of their own, need vehicles adapting to their needs.

It's the march of technology. I remember looking at a 100 year old Rolls Royce. The driver was expected to adjust the engine timing using a lever on the steering wheel. Who needs to 'adjust the points' or clean their carburetors anymore? When did you last read that the 'choke is automatic' was being used as a selling feature?

Yes, I can drive a manual transmission without rolling back on a hill, and could do so since I was 11, but a non-synchro gearbox. Well, I've done it on a LR 2A, but I sure wouldn't want to have to do it during a driving test.

The modern aids are only a problem if the driver thinks he isn't responsible himself. When changing lanes, you need to check your blind spot, whether you have blind spot monitoring or not.

I personally think that "Driver Aids" should be not present when learning to drive.. that way at least they will know what it feels like if a system goes down in later years... I know what it feels like when the car wheels lock under heavy braking and when the tyres are getting to the edge of their grip in a corner. While it maybe a surprise to find your ABS has failed under heavy braking, I would know to ease off the stop switch and try again... What would a younger driver do?

I have noticed that the more safety features become available to the average motorist the worse the standard of driving is... because your less likely to die in a crash, modern day drivers don't pay as much attention to self preservation, the net result is there are more crashes because some muppet was following too closely or going around a corner too fast.

Who remembers the disastrous Mercedes launch of the Radar Braking system... where they forgot to turn the system on and stuffed the car in front of the press And then a lot of those systems rely on optical sensors, below the bumper on the front of the car.... that is really going to work well on a dirty wet road... say with salt on it....

Yes it can be argued that modern safety systems help save lives... but I think you'll find that they also lower the standard of driving and level of skill in car control...... Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

How long before you can take your test in one of these.............

 Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Quote:

The modern aids are only a problem if the driver thinks he isn't responsible himself. When changing lanes, you need to check your blind spot, whether you have blind spot monitoring or not

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It's the march of technology. I remember looking at a 100 year old Rolls Royce. The driver was expected to adjust the engine timing using a lever on the steering wheel. Who needs to 'adjust the points' or clean their carburetors anymore? When did you last read that the 'choke is automatic' was being used as a selling feature?

Yes, I can drive a manual transmission without rolling back on a hill, and could do so since I was 11, but a non-synchro gearbox. Well, I've done it on a LR 2A, but I sure wouldn't want to have to do it during a driving test.

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You're on a sticky one there, so I'm not going to continue this aspect of the debate any further

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Rvbush

Good points.