Haylands wrote:

As I see it the idea to not evoke Article 50 straight away is "because" everyone else is demanding it, as the Article states it is our right to evoke it when we want, no member can be forced out....

No need to invoke any Range Rovers, Pete!

I think some Australian and NZ primary producers might welcome a chance to get back into Britain. Both our countries lost a large market when the UK joined the EEC. Many apple orchards in Tasmania simply closed and the trees were ripped as the farmers had lost their market. We now import a lot of fruit.

In my view, the only people who should have the finger pointed at them are those who didn't vote. They got what others wanted.

Me? I have no idea as to what was right and what was wrong as I hadn't even heard of Brexit until last week but I fully understand why many wanted out.

Really, no one knows how it will turn out in the end.

What will the effect be on the economy of other countries that put the most money into supporting the PIIGS? Will they be paying even more? Ron B. VK2OTC
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+1 for those who didn't vote.
I watched anna soubry at a rally pandering to the crowd, get over it, it's gone.
meanwhile there's elections coming up in france and germany, we'll have to see how the mood is there, they might find they'll have there own problems.

Haylands wrote:

Maybe we could just try a battery disconnection, seems to sort out most problems....

priceless  All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

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2021 AM new Vantage

gregdav wrote:

+1 for those who didn't vote.
I watched anna soubry at a rally pandering to the crowd, get over it, it's gone.
meanwhile there's elections coming up in france and germany, we'll have to see how the mood is there, they might find they'll have there own problems.

The far right will get a major stake of voters - i see an right/green party alliance - still keeping Adolfine Merkel in place  All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

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^ indeed. Frauline Merkel is a very clever and powerful woman.

Worth recalling that Austria just avoided exactly this by a thin whisker. But they almost got Mr Hofer, I think he got 49.7% of the vote. Even closer than our own referendum. Far right is no longer considered to be "Extreme"

France too has a very vocal far right with a lot of voter sympathy. Remember The Netherlands were the ones to veto the Ukrainian deal. And there are plenty more people with similar gripes.

I think one more country is all it would take to bring down the EU as it exists today.

The EU continues to fiddle while Rome burns.

I do like Pete's idea of a battery disconnect though. Remove the 'Power' for a while and see if it all goes back to normal.

If only it were that easy...

Serious question XXXANGELXXX.
Is immigration a big issue in Germany.
Sorry don't have much idea on other countries views.
Although immigration did play a big part in our referendum, I don't feel it was the only issue.
I was a reluctant remain, but as a true believer in democracy, I accept the result of the majority, and have now come around to thinking it's the right way to go.
greg.

I think the immigration is just as big a problem as it was a few decades ago, the opposite of a problem. It is the racist xenophobes that want you to believe it is a problem.

I was a teenager in the Netherlands when we heard exactly the same about the Turks and Morrocans that were going to destroy our country because they did the jobs the dole takers didn't want, the dirty, nasty, menial, low level jobs. They were the ones working and supporting their families. And as it turned out, the Netherlands did really well. Yes there are/were issues with integration of a small group of them but the large majority just got on with life and became part of our population.

Then the EU was opened to the former Eastern Block countries, DRIVEN/PUSHED by the UK might I add !!!!!, and the world was again going to end. But again it didn't, they Polish et al came in and worked hard, did a good job and everybody was happy because again the world hadn't ended, it got better.

And we had the Vietnamese boat refugees and more Eastern European countries etc. etc. Immigration has never been a problem, the right wing facists are the ones that are the problem and that is exactly what is happening in Europe, very similar to the 1930's where a certain little Austrian corporal used the same rethoric as Farage, Wilders and Le Pen and as far is I am concerned THEY are the real problem for Europe and the rest of the world.

This is MY very honest OPINION on the case.

What scares me really badly is the racist behaviour reported in the UK, is that what the UK is becoming/ has become ?? I hope not because I have friends and family there and not all of them are "white". My family is also not all "white" (not just my direct family but also my extended family in the Netherlands) so do I now need to be concerned when visiting my friends and family in the UK ??? Should I be glad that the job I was applying for in the UK, is not going through so my family doesn't have to suffer those degenerates attacking them??? Should I be worried about my "non white" friends in the UK ??????

Maybe those xenophobe racists need to exit the EU and the normal people should stay, send them some godforsaken place where they can all be lovely and "white". The problem is they are all different anyway, speaking different languages, having different backgrounds, so they can't live together with all those others either. Not that I care, just as long as they are no longer among reasonable and fair people...............

RANT OVER. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

As a whole we are not racist, everyone wants to call us that because it's a good "newspaper seller"

What we are upset with is the amount of people coming to out country just because we have one of the best welfare systems, it is terrible for people if they are forced out of their country, we are more than happy to have our fare share of genuine refugees, unfortunately there are a lot who come here with no intention of working or integrating, they just want to claim all they can, even for children in another country, they move into an area, live by their own rules, show no respect for others, intimidate and threaten locals until they get their own way, this really is a problem and more and more are seeing it happen in their area...

Please don't believe all the sensationalised hype in the media, we are a multinational country, but we are fed up paying for anyone who fancies to turn up..... Pete
__________________________________________________
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gregdav wrote:

Serious question XXXANGELXXX.
Is immigration a big issue in Germany.
greg.

YES it is - our country just accepted nearly 1 million of refugees and you are complaining about some few you got in the UK.

It will cost a fortune to our health and social system over the next years (estimations are about 20 billions of Euros) - from that the far right has gained from 0 to 15% of the voters actually !!! I will have to pay this with my income tax (42%).

Thanks to the stupid politics of Adolfine Merkel !  All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

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Immigration seems to be upsetting everyone - I had an amusing (to me) conversation with a cab driver this week - he was telling me in slightly broken english, with an accent that he had voted leave. I asked him why and he cited immigration. This country isn't what it was when he got here 10 years ago - he'd changed jobs 3 times this year because of the immigrants.

He didn't seem to see any irony at all.

Is it immigration (a race issue) or is it immigration numbers and the impact that has.....?

According to the ONS and government figures (yes, I know), ten years ago the UK population was about 59m. In the ten year period since, about 2m UK citizens have left the country (about 200k a year) and with the current population standing at about 65m (ONS figures), that means about 7-8million people came to the UK in that period, increasing the overall population by about 5-6m in ten years.

I've no issue with immigration and no issue with refugees but I do have an issue with us not having the infrastructure* in place to cope with such large increases over such a relatively short period.

*infrastructure- housing, schooling, health care et al.

Such large increases with no certain way to estimate future numbers cannot be good for fiscal planning and cannot be good for the populace already struggling to find places in the current infrastructure.

In the long term, what happens after the UK has improved and increased its infrastructure to cope with the increased number when, inevitably, there is an economic downturn here at a time when other EU countries are more buoyant and people move to them? What happens to the buildings, jobs, places when the flow reverses and people seek prosperity elsewhere?

There are issues surrounding immigration but unfortunately, there is a vocal ultra-right minority with which the ultra-liberals take great delight in using to berate anyone who dares ask reasonable and considered questions.....

Hopefully, better minds than mine (granted, probably most) will have the answers.

IMHO it's growing pains - but that doesn't make it a bad thing.

Stop immigration and hospital queues will reduce, but you will have less doctors & medical staff to treat you. Same with schools etc.

Yes, there needs to be building programs to keep up, but that's progress.

Again just my opinion, but the greatest cities on earth are London & NY - hotbeds of immigration, but that has a lot to do with what makes them great.

I have no time for benefits migrants - but working taxpayers (and their dependent immediate families) are all welcome in my book

Thanks chaps for the good detailed reply.
I'm not anti immigration, but do feel there are too many coming in.
locally we now have strawberry farms, they weren't there a few years ago, so have these people set up a whole industry around migrant workers?.
Also being a left footer (roman Catholic) I was brought up in said schools and church, we had a whole range of colours and nationalities and I had some damn good mates there, I didn't think anything of it, I still don't now. But since leaving school some 40 years ago I've met a few of them, one had even changed his name because of abuse and people couldn't spell it, similar stories of others. So I think the racial hatred has been there a long time, and now we had the referendum it appears to have given them a green light to abuse.
it was a similar story a few years back, when the tories came to power and decided to headline every benefit cheat, a lot of disabled people were getting abuse, my wife included, fortunately she can hold her own as she handles people really well.
The government has also compounded the problem with social welfare and services, they've cut them to the bone, and with the influx of migrants it's put a heavy strain on all the services.
its good to know and listen to all comments from our foreign friends to what other countries have to say.
ta chaps.

How many immigrants from Syria/Africa did the UK take last and this year ?  All my spelling errorz are belong to me!

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