Early March, we were driving back up the M6 late one Saturday. About a mile and a half south of the "Tickled Trout" junction my oil warning light sprang to life. I pulled in immediately and, being a RR, I had oil in the boot. Not checking the level (as it was late, cold and dark) I put some in, and restarted. Lights still on. I then got my torch out and dipped to find the oil level was fine, so I called Green Flag.

Whilst waiting, I put my amber beacon on the roof (used to work in highways years ago...) which due to my dodgy battery, nearly flattened it. So, when GF arrived (It was actually Macadams on behalf of GF, but I'll call them GF from here for brevity) knowing the issue was oil pressure, he jump started the car. No oil light. and it stayed off while we waited a few minutes. He advised me to set off and see what happens. 400 yds later the lights came back on so pulled over again onto the hard shoulder.

He told me that we should take it to the services at Tickled Trout, from where he would have it recovered on a flat bed, so told me to drive very slowly... it was about a mile... and he'd follow me.

Yes - he made me drive a car with oil pressure issues... hindsight is 20/20...

When the recovery arrived, he dropped the ramp and DROVE the car up it - didn't use the winch, then he DROVE it off again at the other end.

At first I thought it might be oil pump, but when the garage dropped the sump there were bits of shell bearings everywhere - they'd blocked the strainer. However, the crank shaft was virtually (and luckily) unscathed so re-shelling it would save the engine. He spent a week on this, carefully cranking it by hand when it needed moving, and got it all back together again.

Came to start it and it wouldn't move. Putting a bore cam down showed a step you can jump off in one of the pistons - it was snagging, caused by lack of oil pressure.

GF are denying any responsibility, but every mechanic I've spoken to says it should never have been run - not even jump started - knowing it was an oil pressure issue.

I spoke to Hunters, my local RR dealer who "said" they were idiots to run it, but couldn't put anything in writing.

I'm trying to gather some "formal" independent opinions on what should have happened, i.e. flatbed from the motorway, and winched, not driven.

I'm going to have to refer this to the financial ombudsman as GF have dismissed my claim saying the damage was already done when they got there. This, as I pointed out, is unlikely as the engine was running. Any damage initially sustained would have been minimal and was exacerbated by their actions.

Are there any members here who could help as independent sources to corroborate the fact that it was totally irresponsible, and not “best practice” for GF to insist on the car being driven with oil pressure problems? Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

Have GF done a formal investigation & given you a final response letter ?

If so, I would just go straight to the ombudsman - seek formal opinion / support if you are asked for it, but make sure you get the complaint registered with them.

Can't the garage who have done the initial diagnostic work provide an opinion ? I would expect that in hindsight it's going to be hard to prove either way

Alistair wrote:

Have GF done a formal investigation & given you a final response letter ?

The oil warning light is a LOW pressure warning, not a level warning, unfortunately the engine is toast BEFORE it comes on, damage has to have been pretty severe, bits of engine will have been pumped through the system and taken out the oil pump... then the light comes on and tells you after the event...

Impossible to give you a warning as one second you have pressure and the next you don't and as stated the damage is done before the light comes on...

The people at fault here are the garage who dropped the sump, they should have done a FULL diagnosis of the engine, not just changed the first thing they found, I imagine there will be other damage as well... it only takes seconds for particles of metal to get taken around the engine and basically make the whole thing scrap...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I think perusing Green Flag is a waste of time... Pete

__________________________________________________
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2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
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Thanks Pete.

I know that the light is pressure, not level If the level is too low though, there's no pressure...

The warning light was not constant, but flickering (though I doubt that makes much difference) the lack of pressure was caused by the blocked strainer.

After it came on, the car obviously started and ran "ok" to be able to be driven a mile and then up and down the flat bed. The argument here is that GF exacerbated the situation. If they'd flatbedded me from the first point, any doubt as to damage would be easily answered.

We initially thought it was oil pump, but when they dropped the sump and found bits of shell bearings everywhere... well... it changed the story. Bits of bearing wedged in the strainer was the cause of lack of pressure - implies the pump's working fine!

The argument here is that GF were totally unprofessional and negligent when instructing me to drive with oil pressure issues.

I appreciate what you say. though. Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

Feel for you mate. I have to say I agree with Pete here. The light comes on far too late. If bits of shell bearing were floating round blocking oilways and the strainer the damage was already done. Most of that would have happened at high revs when you were doing 70 on the motorway. Most roadside mechanics would not have even started the car - let alone let you drive it to the services.
And as Pete says the garage could have saved a lot of time and money if they had have put the scope down the bore before they took the sump off.

I would try and do a deal with the garage and see if they can help cut your losses.

Sorry to here you wows

I think you are very much like you avatar going to be banging your head against in this case greenflag lawyers

As said once the light has come on the damage has been done even if it is due to a low oil level causing low presuure the engine will somewhere have had no oil, so its a matter of time before it fails, I think you will struggle to prove that the damage was caused when you drove it as instructed by GF and not before

Sorry we had a similar problem with a just over a year old fiat van & ended up paying for a new engine Paul
L405 now sold

I fully appreciate what people say here, honestly I do, and I'm not looking to fly in the face of sage words, but...

EVERY mechanic I've spoken to said it should never have been driver.

Other recovery drivers I've spoken to said it shold have been flatbed from the off.

Hunters, my RR dealership, said it should never have been driven.

AVRO said it shouldn't have been driven and a flatbed from the off.

The engine rebuild place I just spoke to said it should never have been driven.

Whilst there may have been some damage, the issue of GF's negligence has, according to every professional I have spoken to, increased the likelihood and severity of damage. Knowingly driving a vehicle with oil pressure problems ESPECIALLY ONTO AND OFF THE RECOVERY LORRY instead of using a winch, was irresponsible, unprofessional and negligent. Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

As a matter of interest, who was paying for the work being done by the garage, before they deemed it unserviceable? (The work to replace the shell bearings and put it all back together?)

Well... I've not been given a bill for that yet but I think the garage are expecting me to pay. Tym
(current) L322 3.6 TDV8 Vogue 2008 Tonga Green
(previous) L322 4.4 LPG Vogue SE 2003

If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needs replacing anyway.

Worth trying to claim from GF I suppose, what he did was wrong but I expect they will have some outer somewhere in the small print,

Got recovered from Manchester a while ago when a height sensor failed and being daft I'd updated the IID tool and left it at home (It ALWAYS lives in the FF) and the recovery driver, an independent working for GF would not let me drive it on the recovery truck, he said it HAD to be winched on... maybe worth asking GF to explain the actions of the driver, or ask what action he SHOULD have taken...

If it was my engine I would want it completely stripped and checked, bits of bearing would be all over the place including the Vanos, even a very small shard could sit somewhere until months down the road and then move and trash the engine again...

Regarding the not starting now, seen it happen before, when the engine is nice and hot it will still work, let it cool and everything tightens up and it won't run..

Really think the mechanic you are using should know these things, I'd certainly ask them why they didn't inspect the full engine before they started work, it will be awkward to ask but I think you need to...  Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Sorry to echo what Pete is saying here as its not what you need or want hear at the moment but Pete is absolutely right.
My son in law had his turbo go on a 4 year old Citroen and Citroen main dealer and a couple of other locals wouldn't touch it as they are notorious for bits of shratnel getting round the oilways and a couple of hundred miles later the whole engine blows up.
Well guess what, I offered to fit a new turbo which is only 300 quid, I flushed out the oil a couple of times, filled with new oil etc, got it going and all seemed OK and then two weeks and 350 miles later "bang" whole engine exploded and put a leg out of bed........
I stripped it down and there were bits of (what I think) old turbo blocking the oilways. And they were tiny, but obviously large enough to do the damage.
This is a common occurrence on the 1.6 engine.

Read the whole thread and again I am afraid I agree with Pete the damage was done before you stopped plus "I pulled in immediately and, being a RR, I had oil in the boot. Not checking the level (as it was late, cold and dark) I put some in, and restarted. Lights still on." even this restarting by you could/would have caused additional damage.

GF driving onto flatbed may have made matters worse but the engine was most likely already toast.

Sorry about your predicament.

To succeed against GF you would need to prove that the car was OK before they got involved, or that they made things substantially worse. That would have to be through an expert witness and GF would of course be entitled to have an expert to put their case. From the opinions of experienced people on here it sounds as if you would struggle to put a case together, but even if you could get someone, I suspect the cost of running the claim, especially if you are at risk of having to contribute to GF's costs if you lose, is likely to be prohibitively high in the context of the likely value of your car. Only Range Rovers since 1988