Mummy My Head HURTS

Right in all my towing in the ffrr, I have never managed to produce the 'Transmission over heat' Warning, which has really shocked me after some of the hills that I've gone up. Suffice it to say, I am heavy on the car but I'm also careful, and I keep a very close eye on the temperatures, and don't push my luck too much. The biggest single problem that I have had is getting the bloody TCC to lock up when I'm towing, and I think that this is the biggest single factor into the demise of the torque converter, which is worn not failed.

So while heat is a consideration, over heat is unlikely. so I'm leaning towards Kevlar. Because durability is more the issue, not heat...... hopefully that is the right conclusion......... unless someone else thinks I'm going horribly wrong, speak up of make a grown man cry later  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Re heat, my thinking was based more on the nature of the job than specific overheating of the transmission. The lock-up clutch is perhaps more "active" than the clutch in a manual transmission, and without the ability to control the harshness, perhaps glazing could be an issue also. I imagine both clutches would give similar life because, even with lower strength, more friction means less slip. Just a few thoughts.

Have you considered Phil's comments re the valve block? Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

Yes, but it is a very expensive "fix" when the box is actually doing what it should, other than squeaking between 30 and 50. To be honest I can afford to chance that the valve block may fix the problem, as I recon the problem is the excessive towing that I'm doing with the car. For the cost of the valve block I can replace the torque converter and do the ECO tune..... Don't forget that the Turbo is on it's last legs as well  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Yes, I know exactly what that's like.

Thinking with regard to your towing, and yes "I would say this", but perhaps you could consider moving to a D3 with the 6-speed box until such time as you can budget for a TDV8? I know it's no FF, but if you are/were anticipating being forced into something Japanese then... Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

Japanese........ I'd rather buy a Yank

If they weren't so uncomfortable I'd probably get a Defender, but having towed with several over the years, let's just say that it takes a lot longer to get where your going and you'll need a good supply of clean underwear too

Yes a D3 or D4 would be a better option than the TD6 ffrr, but they are stupidly priced too, in fact from what I've seen they are as expensive as a TDV8 and just as unreliable to boot

The thought of an extra 75 hp for towing is very tempting, but add the price of one that's done around 100K and I'd rather stick with the ffrr. I'm sure that it's not beyond the wit of man to make the TD6 work, just got to find the right combination of fixes. I'm still hopeful that someone will find a way of sticking a later X5 box in, then life would be good  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Last edited by miggit on 3rd Feb 2016 11:13pm. Edited 1 time in total

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Japanese........

Well you said it.

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Yes a D3 or D4 would be a better option than the TD6 ffrr, but they are stupidly priced too, in fact from what I've seen they are as expensive as a TDV8 and just as unreliable to boot

I would think and early model (05/06) with a few miles on should be available for a bit less than a TDV8, and the TDV6 is a bit better on the reliability front.

E.g. Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

The tdv6 is just as unreliable for towing. Look on their forum for Character and see what he's had replaced over the years and given up on and gone for a beaver tail merc now.

In my mind overheating that gearbox would mean middle east style heats and abusive towing. Or in this country ignoring low coolant/no coolant warnings and battering it as there is a lot of fluid and metal to disipate the heat to and as the box is quite exposed to airflow I'd imagine that helps cooling as well. FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

Miggit,

Heed the wise words of RRPhil, he is the Gearbox Guru ,
it's not the TC that's the problem on the GM5L40E gearbox, but the valve block. The lack of regular oil and filter changes allows particles from the clutches, as they wear. to act like sandpaper around the gearbox internals. Due to the alloy used to produce the castings for the valve bodies on these units, they are more susceptible to wear. Once the solenoid valve bores wear to a point where fluid pressures cause oil bypass around the valves, then you're on a slippery slope to nowhere. You can replace a worn/knackered Torque converter with a much stronger one, but the valve block will still cause the problems, and indeed will just speed the failure mode.
Your two best options are:
1. Get a remanufactured/strengthened valve block from Sonnax and a new/stronger TC from ebay (or Mackies of Glasgow).
2. Get your gearbox remanufactured (not rebuilt) by a reputable company, who will rebore and reline the solenoid valve bores with stronger material than the original casting alloy. This is the same process as used when you'convert' an old car from four star (leaded) pterol, to unleaded petrol.

As a better/stronger solution, that's the way to go.

Peeps, I think that you are comparing my towing to your experiences, trust me you ain't towed nothing like these. I have pulled trailers with Landcruisers on them and Classic Rangies, and they aren't any near as heavy to tow. You can't compare them to a tin tent, I have a caravan, it's 28 feet long plus A frame, it weighs 1.8 tons, I can exceed the speed limit with out even thinking about it.

But when it comes to a mobile loo My car struggles to get to 50, let alone hold that speed, so it keeps on dropping below 50 and slipping the clutch, and off we go again. It's like having 3 tons of trailer and a parachute at the same time

I understand what Phil has said, and take it on board, I just don't have the funds to replace the gearbox, valves, torque converter and chance that he's right about everything and that it has nothing to do with the trailers that I'm towing........ they kill Landcruisers, they kill Patrols, Troopers, Defenders, Disco's, But not as quickly as I've killed the ffrr Plus you have to understand that the gearbox was fully re-built last year, including some of the valves, although to be fare I think that they were in the pump not the valve block.

Lost for Words....... How much? I've seen TDV8's for that money with 20K less on the clock! Yes it would do the job better, but I haven't got that sort of dosh. Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Not the cheapest, no, but a top example. I guess the major price differences are down to the engine and gearbox etc. - the 02-05 FF was just built that bit too soon to benefit so it's been left behind a bit.

kingpleb wrote:

The tdv6 is just as unreliable for towing. Look on their forum for Character and see what he's had replaced over the years and given up on and gone for a beaver tail merc now.

It's less inclined to pop turbos than the TDV8 though - the comparison is often made on RRSport - and most importantly, you get the 6-speed box.

Character - yes, he's replaced almost everything...but that was over 738k of towing before retiring!  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

Yes it was but then I doubt his towing weights were often at the max 3500kg and shaped like a breeze block

They are less inclined to blow turbos than tdv8's but then try do like to eat themselves often enough thru oil pump failure, bottom end failure...
Almost a post every week about it on either the SSRR forum or disco lot.. When there isn't one for a while you know a few will be along soon enough just like buses lol.

That's the major reason I stopped looking at them and got an FF. When two local indies to me at the time said for my budget and needs an FF would be much better long term and more reliable for a Land Rover 😂

Plus the rangey is more comfy for long trips as well. Crucially if you need to swap a failed turbo on a td6 you don't need to take the body off and there's no stupid timing belts of which one is hidden at the back of the engine 😉

Only time you really must have a disco and not an FF is if you need to seat 6 passengers and don't like the over finch style boot seats in the rangey. FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

Nah, the tensioner issue is 100% preventable and even including them, engine failures are pretty rare. The turbo can be done body on, but even then, a skilled indy can have the body off in no time. The fuel belt on the 2.7 isn't timed so doesn't take long to change at all, and it's only every 105k/7 years. Anyway, we digress a bit.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

I know an Indy that recons he can change the timing belts with the body on

Anyway I'm stuck with the ffrr, so I've got to make it work. Was even thinking about adding an extra peddle But then remembered that the Disco manual eats clutches, and I'd get confused with too many peddles, so I shelved that one

Just trying to find a reputable TCC repairer that will actually supply me, for some strange reason they are very reluctant to play ball It would appear that while they supply Torque Converters, they really like to re-build the box, which is not on the cards, as I have a hard time believing the box is dodgy. Granted the bloody thing squeaks between 30 and 50, but in sport mode all is silent  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Yes, I guess it's not surprising that they push for full recons. Of course, a really dishonest place might give the "No, no, it's sealed for life, sir. It'll be fine" treatment...

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I know an Indy that recons he can change the timing belts with the body on

3.0 you mean, presumably? Yes, I know a chap who can do it.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

I didn't ask as I don't have a Disco / Sport

All I'm saying is that the 'body off' repair isn't totally necessary all the time, and I recon that it could be a good money spinner

And while I agree that a knackered Torque converter is normally a death blow to a gearbox, I haven't actually arrived at this all of a sudden.......rather I've slipped in to the state of "squeak" and naff fuel consumption, plus I haven't towed since it's happened, and I now drive, as little as possible and in sport........ which is costing me a fortune

Sport mode...... a way of making your fuel gauge move quicker, while not actually getting anywhere faster

Still on the bright side of things 20 mpg hurts a lot less this year, than it would a year ago  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!