drivesafe wrote:

So as the heading asks, does LR make the worlds most dangerous vehicles?

Nah - that's just silly What is dangerous is folk that continue to drive a car which stinks of diesel until it sets on fire or those that see a red light on the dash indicating a brake fault and think it's ok to carry on

One more thing that is dangerous - a grieved owner going onto a website full of LR enthusiasts and arguing that their pride and joys are a load of rubbish

We all know LR have issues and like to joke about it. LR have been making more complex cars than just about any other same sector manufacturer and yes they have occasionally pushed technology a wee bit too far. They are not alone in having faults / issues / problems but the difference is they are an easy target sat on a pedestal. Oh, and as for the British press being aware of their issues - don't you guys down-under know how it works in the UK? If anyone dares to succeed the press will do everything in their power to put them down - I think the descriptive word is JEALOUSY!!

My advice is for you to leave the LR fold and buy something suitable

DMRR wrote:

I owned (nobody laugh) a 1998 Ford Explorer - they were recalled for sticking throttles AND Firestone tyre issues

Hi Riccarton, why would I ask this question on forums of other makes of vehicles?

Everybody ( or at least most ) of the people here already have a Land Rover, so what is your point.

I’m not going to get much of a realistic reply to my question on a non Land Rover site and I have never raised the question of either LRs lack of reliability or how dangerous they are, on any other make specific forum.

As you have already pointed out, it would just give the knuckle draggers and red necks something more to laugh about.

I have asked a question here and will be asking it on other LR specific forums, to get the opinions of other Land Rover owners, of what they think about Land Rovers poor manufacturing track record. 2007 TDV8 Lux

Okay, prize for most dangerous car, rather than least reliable must go to the Suzuki Celerio. Brand new car and first road test the brakes fail completely for two different car magazines. Usually it takes time for a fault to be recognized.

GM (ignition switch) and Ford (Pinto) both continued to sell cars after they KNEW had potentially dangerous faults.

Of course, the bad behaviour or design of one car does not excuse the failings of another. They could ALL do better. And, yes, JLR could certainly stand to improve their reliability.

Toyota probably suffered more than most when it came to all the recalls because people buy Toyotas specifically because they're reliable.

Hi RR2008HSE, and I TOTALLY agree with your whole post, but you missed one important factor.

How much do all these other vehicles cost as compared to LRs.

It’s not that they are so unreliable. I knew before I bought every one of my 6 Land Rovers, that they would most likely have problems, But I try to but all my vehicles NEW, so they come with a warranty.

I am not in my wildest imagination, any for of mechanic, hence buying new vehicles with warranties.

Unreliability aside, going on the cost of LRs, they should be more reliable, but I would imagine, most LR enthusiast/owners accept that they are not that reliable and it was never a deal maker or breaker with me.

The problem is the safety issues, something I was never aware of, and again, the reason for my question. 2007 TDV8 Lux

Hi Drivesafe,

Around here, it's getting late, so if I only missed one thing, I think I'm doing pretty well. Thanks.

Land Rover vehicles are certainly VERY complicated, sometimes too complicated.

I think getting one with a warranty is a great idea.

I can't help but wonder when people have continual, never-ending problems with a car (any car) if the person that is fixing the car (even if it IS a main dealer) knows what he/she is doing? No car is that bad. If the 'mechanic' doesn't know what to do and just keeps adding new parts without fixing the real problem, you'll still have a problem.

I got a 'CHECK COOLANT LEVEL' warning on my RR. I took it to a mechanic who replaced the coolant sensor and said it was fine. A week later it wasn't. Mechanic said the new sensor was also fault and replaced it again. Problem STILL came back. Went to another mechanic who diagnosed the real problem (which wasn't the sensor) and fixed it. Now, I wasn't thrilled to have the problem in the first place, but it would have been one trip rather than three if I went to the correct mechanic the first time.

Check the video posted on the forum about the Ford main dealer's mechanics who go joy-riding in a customer's car at 118mph. I bet that car now has issues. And, although I'm not a Ford fan, I can't blame THAT on the design of the car.

When it comes to recalls, I wonder: how serious is this? how many cars involved? does this sound like something they should have known better about (Celerio) or an honest mistake? and lastly, did they deal with the issue in a prompt and professional manner.

I remember taking my father minivan in for a safety recall (rear hatch hinge) soon after I got my driving license. I told them I wanted the recall done and knew it would only take 30 minutes. The mechanics went over the car with a fine-toothed comb looking for something else wrong so they could get some chargeable work. They couldn't find anything and I wouldn't sign any work orders. Left in 30 with new latch which worked fine (but so had the old one in our case).

drivesafe wrote:

Hi Riccarton, why would I ask this question on forums of other makes of vehicles?

Everybody ( or at least most ) of the people here already have a Land Rover, so what is your point.

I’m not going to get much of a realistic reply to my question on a non Land Rover site and I have never raised the question of either LRs lack of reliability or how dangerous they are, on any other make specific forum.

As you have already pointed out, it would just give the knuckle draggers and red necks something more to laugh about.

I have asked a question here and will be asking it on other LR specific forums, to get the opinions of other Land Rover owners, of what they think about Land Rovers poor manufacturing track record.

Wow - thanks for that I don't remember mentioning "knuckle draggers and red necks" but if it's a good point I'll take it

I think one good reason for asking the same question on other non-LR forums would be to get a balanced view (not to mention someone who agrees with you). If you only ask LR owners then overall you'll get the same responses as have already been posted. Mind you, if you stick to the safety side and not the reliability issues even non-LR sites will struggle to poke fingers at LR products (IMO).

I have re-read this topic yet again and can't find anybody who has agreed with your original question but you seem to argue that responders "opinions" aren't valid for whatever reason. A good example of this is RR2008HSE's post about the Suzuki Celerio - he makes a good point or two in his post but you claim his opinion isn't valid as the Suzuki is not in the same price bracket as LR products. Your opening question never mentioned cost and I presume your now saying safety failures aren't something we should worry about on cheaper cars.

Your question will be approached differently by different people i.e. in your opening post you talk of life threatening failures and in the same context talk about diffs. I personally would not normally put a diff failure in the category of life threatening but each to their own (I say normally as I have seen diffs explode and seize solid causing wheels to lock but I don't believe this was ever the case with the LR issues). I would put LR's diff failure in the reliability category - not the life threatening safety failure category.

So, my opinion. NO, I don't think LR make the most dangerous vehicles. NO, I don't think price point should play a part in acceptance of safety failures.

That is just my opinion. It may be right - it may be wrong, but it is my opinion and that is what you requested. Perhaps you should have done this as a poll - polls tend to get more votes than responses.

I shall now sit back and wait for the flood of responders to agree with you

drivesafe wrote:

At present, there is the Brake Hose Recall, which so far seems to be limited to North America but I know from feedback here in Australia, that there have been similar problems, so this will probably end up as another world wide recall.

drivesafe wrote:

There was the recall for the substandard high pressure fuel hoses, that would perforate and spray fuel on to hot engine parts and caused numerous fires.

It is an interesting question and I would love to see accurate statistics on this covering all car brands and models. I think that would be very hard to come by because the impact on a brand could be huge. It should however be public knowledge, easily accessible and mandatory. I don't think it will ever be but it should.

I don't believe that the L322 is a particularly dangerous vehicle, I can't remember ever hearing anybody die due to one of these issues (but that doesn't mean it didn't happen) and quite a few died due the Chevy ignition lock or the Toyota accelerator issue. Maybe these cars sell in higher numbers and for lower prices but that is not very relevant.

The reason why I think it is not very relevant is that a lot of car parts come from suppliers and not the actual car factory. So several brands will be using the same part (remember the airbag issue of this Japanese company Takata). In other words a lot of the problems are not car brand/model specific but more part specific.

I think that the argument of the FFRR being a more expensive car is only partly true, the car is also a more expensive car to manufacture and due to its smaller numbers compared to say a Yaris/Corolla/Camry less benefit of large production numbers.

Furthermore I think cars are getting better and better and better over time and they should (self driving car anyone !!!!). The difference with cars of a few decades ago are actually quite a lot. My first car was a 1963 Triumph Herald and if you compare that to any basic modern car there is a huge difference in many ways. Or compare my old Beetle or Mini or Datsun to their modern day versions, huge difference again. They have gotten soo much better, safer, comfortable, reliable etc. Not that they never break, just a LOT less than their old versions.

I think that our cars are getting way much better on safety and reliability etc. That doesn't mean they are perfect yet but I do hope they hurry up getting there soon. I would love a car that doesn't malfunction and needs minimal maintenance and then do 500k miles or even KMs in absolute comfort and safety . MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

If you want an unbiased opinion, you need to ask in other avenues other than LR forums, which by their nature are generally populated by those who made a choice to buy a LR/RR.

You haven't really explained your "dangerous" stance. As I said, ALL manufacturers have issues. Reliability is a massive issue across the automotive industry, cars are complex but increasing seen as a "white good" that should not go wrong.

A safety issue CAN be caused by something typically outside of the manufacturer's control - a vehicle is made up of thousands of components from hundreds of suppliers. Land Rover makes little of the actual vehicle itself.

A recall for a component can be for a number of reasons - faulty manufacture by the supplier, bad QA by the supplier, design fault, incorrectly assembled.

If LRs were the most dangerous, all the owners would have been killed by now Or JLR would have been sued into the ground.

I really struggle to see your point, I know you have an axe to grind regarding your LR/RR purchases but trying to stir this up isn't going to get very far I expect.

I can not believe the response on this forum to my question.

As I have already pointed out, most if not all those reading this will already own a Land Rover, so how is this question “trying to stir up” anything.

I was asking a straightforward question of people who already own the product, to see what there opinions might be.

Instead of unbiased answers, which is what I would normally expect of a land rover enthusiasts forum, you all seem to have a bury your head in the sand mentality and I apologies for thinking, as this is a land rover enthusiast forum I would get an honest response.

I might point out that a similar subject was raised on AULRO, and not by me, and while some of the replies were similar to those here, the bulk of the replies were about the problems people were having with both the UK product and LRA.

I am truly surprised at the response here, particularly as there are so many of these same issues covered in other threads on this forum.

I’ll not trouble you further as it is not the sort of LR community response I expect to see.

And Martin, while some of the items used may come from third party parts manufacturers, it is still the vehicle manufacturers responsibility, Land Rover or any other manufacturer, the final use is the vehicle manufacturers responsibility to make sure the product is up to standard, safety or otherwise.

The current problem with the RRS deliveries in Australia, and the reason for this question in the first place, is that the Air Conditioner’s wire loom ( third party supplied ) was supposed to have a 4mm main power supply cable but it has a 1.5mm cable in it’s place but is fused for a 4mm cable.

Using the A/C will easily lead to a fire.

If the quality control is so good an LR, why was this not picked up in the factory? 2007 TDV8 Lux

''Instead of unbiased answers, which is what I would normally expect of a land rover enthusiasts forum''

are you for real!!!

you will get 'biased' remarks from a LR enthusiast, i think the clue is in the word 'enthusiast' ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

Sorry Stan and that is not the case.

My wife was driving our RR when the alternator failed, causing the steering lock to apply.

I was anything but pleased when a vehicle of this price suffered such a alternator failure at such a low kms and that failure could turn the vehicle into a death trap.

As above, I was not impressed that an alternator would fail at such low kilometres, and it was not till some time later that I learnt that it is actually commonplace for alternators in my model RR and a number of other LRs, to fail at around 60,000m or 100,000km.

Mine failed at 98,000kms.

I got that info off this forum.

That’s not BIASED info, thats honest support from other LR enthusiasts.

And this is just one of many helpful support replies I have received from this site.

So contrary to what you may think of the bulk of the people on this forum, I have, up until this thread, found the majority to be very UNBIASED, as is the case with most LR forums. 2007 TDV8 Lux

it appears that you and your wife both knew something was wrong with your FF yet your wife still drove it, wouldnt it been prudent to get it checked out before driving it any further..

your account in this nov 2013 thread, http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/post222731.html#222731


.....and yet you still own a FF nearly 2 years after your alternator problem.. ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

Ask "has anyone had this component fail" and people will tell you.

Ask "is every LR out to kill its owner" and people will tell you.

Just because it's not what you want to hear, don't get irate about it.

I'm sure JLR are pretty hacked off at being supplied a sub-specification wiring loom. Despite what you think JLR don't set out to build "dangerous" cars