Nah I'm cool about it, they are all ugly and not great hit not the worst of the bunch 😄😄 FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

Hi chaps, I have read your comments on a budget off roader, and can see the pro's and con's of all the cars. D1 is basic, simple, and easy to get bits for but they suffer from the tin worm
D2 is basically a D1 upgrade, but I will say that I have experienced 1, and it would eat rear air bags like they were oil filters, it was nothing but trouble.
Classic RR, very good off road, very prone to tin worm as well! And there wasn't really a diesel version to speak of. How ever there are a lot of interesting conversions out there, inc. V8 GMC diesels
Defender is great if your 4 foot nothing tall and not very wide, otherwise it is almost the most uncomfortable car I've driven.
P38's are a disaster in Diesel form, why they ever put that 2.5 BMW lump in is beyond me, the 300 TDi was a much better engine, but it seems that it was restricted to the defender. But they do have air suspension, which translates in to comfy ride and good off road clearance
Jeep's have their good and bad points too, I will say that the parts for major jobs like suspension and body lifts are not only out there, but they are way cheaper than L/R or Jap based kits. I payed £450 for 4.5" lift kit for my YJ Wrangler, which included 4 leaf springs, 4 shocks, and all the bits for dropping the rear of the gearbox, sway bars and brake lines Cheap!
A word to the wise, for the money we are talking, Jeep don't do Diesels , they were worse that some of the L/R missmatches! Leave well alone and go for either the V8's or the 4lt straight 6, which has tons of power, and more importantly bags of torque
I would not recommend a Jeep Jeep if your going to drive a distance, although they are a lot wider than a defender, and therefore don't squash you against the door, the foot peddle arrangement is of a nature that you can't walk after a few hours of constant driving , but I will say that it really does put a silly grin on your face
Cherokee / Grand Cherokee's are much better on ride comfort and driveabillity, but remember that Jeep don't do Diesel, got a lot better when Mercedes got involved, but then the prices shot up to reflect this. Most of them come with things like cruise control, but they do have IFS's fitted so the cost of getting more clearance for chunky tyres is more.
And if you want reliability, what the hell are you doing here? You need to be looking at Toyota Landcruiser, I'd recommend an 80 series, as most come with locking front, middle and rear diffs. But be prepared for hostile looks for L/R owners!
A few years ago I had to go and repair the Mobile Toilets at the Surrey L/R London to Brighton run, and I took the company car, a Landcruiser 100 series, talk about feeling out of place! Anyway all the faults turned out to be self inflicted, and minor, so to insure that there were no more 'faults', I told them that I'd come down in the Wrangler if it happened again, everything work perfectly after that, can't think why  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

And while your on the ugly bit which is worse?





And remember that if it wasn't for the humble Jeep being raped by Rover, we would not have the FFRR. If you've never read the Land Rover history you should!
Jeeps are engineered to be offroaders, which they do very well.
Land Rovers are engineered to be bomb proof Jeeps! I know which I'd rather take on a desert crossing, and it's got more than 4 letters in it's name, Toyota  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

miggit wrote:

Hi chaps, I have read your comments on a budget off roader, and can see the pro's and con's of all the cars. D1 is basic, simple, and easy to get bits for but they suffer from the tin worm
D2 is basically a D1 upgrade, but I will say that I have experienced 1, and it would eat rear air bags like they were oil filters, it was nothing but trouble.
:

Sorry my friend, i completely disagree with your comments on a D2! My Bobtail (i have owned since 2002ish has never once given me a days problem with the EAS is still on her original airbags and it is not my experience that well maintained examples suffer with EAS failure any more than FFRR's do!

Further more, the D2 is not a "D1 upgrade" sir... Far from it! They don't share any resemblance underneath at all! More like a P38a underneath than a D1...

And imho, the TD5 is one of the best Derv engines ever produced by LR...

Have to agree with Craig. I have had 1 D1 TDi300 and 4 TD5 D2s. I still have the one I bought new in 2003 and although I did change the air bags at 80K they are service consumables IMO.

The only complaint I had with the first three was that they (mine anyway) were prone to silly electrical faults but that hasn't been the case with the "facelift".

It doesn't have the luxury of the FFRR but I never hesitate about getting into it and going for a long trip. John
2008 Stornoway Grey 3.6 Tdv8 Vogue
2005 TD6 Java Black Vogue - Written off!!
GAP iiD BT
2003 Discovery TD5 Auto, Nanocom Evolution - gone to a new home!
MasseyFerguson 152 - No electronics!! - Sold

If the DS2 is more like a P38 underneath, Why has it got coil springs on the front end?
And as far as reliability of the air bags goes, I've only encountered one D2, a commercial version and that popped 5 air bags in 2 years, we threw the system away when the pump gave up the ghost and fitted coil springs. Was very good after that!
I just can't fathom why L/R would want to add half a system on to the Disco? Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

They fitted them for legislative reasons... Cantilever weight of 7 occupants, 2 being behind the back axle... Used on commercials due to weight carrying ability! Simple...

Cam-Tech-Craig wrote:

And imho, the TD5 is one of the best Derv engines ever produced by LR...

Ok, they made a 3 bearing 2 1/4 four cylinder diesel engine. Then they made a 2.5 litre direction injection four cylinder engine that went into the Disco I. Then they made the TD5. Since then they've used BMW or Ford diesel engines.

Not knocking the TD5 but comparing it to other LR derv engines isn't much of a fight.

And to be fair, the Ford derived diesels have had a lot of input from long standing diesel sector leaders  FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

I get what your saying Craig, I was only wondering why you'd go to all the bother of fitting 2/3 rds of the system, and not go the whole hog? Could have made a good model great! Yes I know that they were really designed with a car full of kids in mind, but then they go and make the commercial version. Now I can only imagine that most of the people who brought the commercial Disco, will have done so because of working off road. So why not have the adjustable ground clearance to go with it ?
Still who knows what goes through L/R's minds, think it was the D3 that had coil springs on the base model and air on the rest of the range ?!?  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

That's right miggit, some base model S d3's got coils but I think you could chose to ha e the better system. FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.