The battery life cycle is much much better than a few years these days and the developments in batteries is also very promising, that is not something I worry about at all.

Actually to get kits suitable for "special interest" vehicles like vintage car would be a separate part of such a business although I expect that being a small market. I expect most of the vintage cars will remain low annual mileage cars that people would like to keep original but I also think there will be a number of people that would convert them anyway.

The bulk of the work would be the conversion of the daily use vehicles, that is where the money and benefits are.

A company that does this work should IMHO also be "open source" similar to Tesla, so that a handy person can get the kit and convert almost any car, bike, truck quickly and easily.

To me it all makes big sense in this day and age. The conversions themselves have been around for a while now but they are either very expensive or very amateurish and will not reach the general public. And looking at the uptake of full electric and hybrid cars, the market is ready for it or will be soon. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

miggit wrote:

That's all well and good, but what ever happened to hydrogen powered cars?

miggit wrote:

Kurt, there is already such a thing as a cheaper to run Rolls Royce, over here.

There's no way you could run a vintage RR as a daily driver with anything like reasonable running costs/reliability.

Sorry to derail your thread Eugene.

I don't like all the crap that's talked about electric cars - and that's on both sides - pro and anti. As a consumer I would like to know what the real world numbers are, including life-cycle costs. I suspect any advantages would depend very much on how the car was used. Long journies in winter would favour diesel. Short journies in town and an electric car would be massively better.

Either way, the days of carbon are going to end. I personally welcome it because we'll live in a cleaner, more sustainable world.

Don't get me wrong, there are some very impressive cars out there, I particularly like the all electric ones with the very small combustion engine back up, that only drives a generator. Stupidly quick performance and around 200 Mpg. Plus your not tied to a plug socket, win win all round! Plus electric motors produce very high torque figures, which has got to be a good thing for something over 2 tons.
Electric motors coupled to a combustion engined generator, have been the best way to move big things for years, just look at the tipper trucks that are 200 ton plus.
Also electric motors are a much cheaper way to produce all wheel drive, only I'd be a bit worried when it came to deep water wading, could be shocking
I suppose that the best case option for me would be, a FFRR that had 4 electric motors, with regenerative braking and a generator driven by something like a Smart 600cc engine, running on LPG.
But they don't make it , so I'll stick to my BMW powered Tractor  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Toyota also just presented a new hydrogen fuel cell car that is going on sale soon. Camry type car.

There is a lot of incorrect information about electricity generation, electric vehicles, batteries etc. etc. etc. Those aside, asssuming that we have a reasonable and growing amount of renewable energy generation (in Europe that is happening although not as fast as most would like), good batteries (they are here and getting better by the year) etc.

Besides fossil fuel is dying and killing the economy, not matter how much shale oil/gas and tar sand is being developed or how deep we are drilling and producing these days. The climate change has taken hold and the cost of that is already increasing very rapidly. So economically fossil fuel is dying, even if there is plenty still recoverable at reasonable cost, the total cost is not sustainable.

To me the combination of full electric drive with batteries and/or hydrogen range extender is the way to go since it also allows for decentralized energy generation and storage. PV panels are now more or less at the same cost level as fossil fuel and the cost per kWh is dropping steadily contrary to fossil fuel. So before long it is a matter of direct cost (GBP/kWh) and not even the cost of fossil fuel climate change (I am not forgetting the contribution of other climate change gasses such as cow farts etc.).

For me it is interesting how a forum of enthusiasts like us would see this. I mean, I would hate to take my lovely big 5.0 SC lump and gearboxes out and throw them away but I would definitely do it once it becomes financially achievable for me.

To come back on the issue of battery lifecycle, I have read a number of credible articles on hybrid car batteries and it seems a clear myth to me they fail often and have a short lifespan. They are far more reliable than a TD6 gearbox from where I'm standing

Tesla and Toyota offer substantial battery warranty. Tesla says 8 years and unlimited kms (not clear is how much degradation after 8 years is warranty covered but it seems around 20%) and Toyota 8 years and 160k kilometers for example. Prius battery replacement cost (first/second generation) is around 3700 USD without return premium for old battery (around 1200 USD), Honda battery pack is 2000 USD. So cost wise not great but cheaper than a new/recon TD6 gearbox !!

For the retrofit systems I would also suggest to make smaller modular battery pack units, so when one unit goes, you replace it and you can spread the cost out over a year or two. Don't forget that your service cost of an EV is much lower : no oils, filters, brake pads (assuming full regen braking, which is possible and practical) for example. Just that cost reduction over 8 years is quite a lot of dosh and if you then look at a battery pack replacement the delta is a lot less and may even turn out positive for the EV. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

A Dutchman invented a service station system for battery driven cars, where you would drive in, have the whole battery charade changed automatically from under the car, within 3 minutes and drive on again.
That is a great advantage, the issue is that the pollution on this planet with all the batteries would be huge.
All these ideas are great, still the solution is not there yet.

Robert, that was the system that Better Place was trying to introduce in a few countries in the world but unfortunately they folded not that long ago. Tesla is rumoured to now also be working on that principle in addition to the supercharger stations. Makes sense, perfect type of range extender for full electric  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Wot's my GM box done to you? I hate to brake it to you but the ZF box in your's isn't much better. The main cause is trying to get better MPG with partial torque converter lock up, at low speeds. Most of the modern boxes use this method, and they all ware out.  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

The ZF boxes just need one solenoid replaced and the coolers (for the earlier models) replaced other than that they last forever. The TD6 box however seems to be made of cheese

But what are you doing on the forum anyway, you should be making some more wheel pins in the shed and not playing here. I NEED my set  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

I have enlisted the services of a very nice man with a big CNC lathe, final pre-production meeting on Monday, hopefully will have stock by the end of the week They were taking too long to make by hand, and I've pulled some back mussels for good measure
TD6 gearbox made of cheese, that would be Rubbery then? Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Used mine yesterday bloody marvellous

Interesting idea, Eugene.
It would make sense for folks who drive high mileages.
I don't, so I don't think I would, NOW. However, if a big piece of the power train goes bang and you're already facing a big bill, adding a little bit more for all of those advantages makes sense.
We never got any diesel Land Rovers over here, so they're very highly prized. When a high mileage Rover V8 dies
in a RRC, D1&2 or Defender, many like to put in a TDI. It doesn't make financial sense when the V8 is working, but it gets considered when a new engine is a must and the only question is which one.

Ignoring the electric option for now, if we were all using hydrogen fuel cells and pumping our water vapour, isn't that a MUCH more efficient 'greenhouse' gas than CO2?

you are all forgetting, that the tax on typical fuels like petrol/diesel HAS to be collected... its in the budget. if overnight, we all switched to super lean cars or hybrid, there would be a huge shortfall. hence the costs of purchasing say, a battery for 'transportation', would become the new fuel tax! look what happened when people started buying diesels in the 90's it went up more than petrol. if we use less petrol, like we do nowadays, its has to go up! - to replace the lost revenue. about £25billion on fuel per year..

soon, the government are going to have to tax the e-cigarette. because they are going to lose out, as we switch.

what ever you do, in the long run, you are 'parting your buttocks' for the Chancellor to take his pleasure.

just.... enjoy driving... your Range Rover.

Hydrogen fuel cells, only produce heat, electricity, and water, no greenhouse gasses at all. But I can see a problem with this idea, with all that extra water being produced wouldn't it make the flooding worse That would then make Borris come up with new no go areas for green cars like Staines In Thames  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!