Soon as the average drops to 7 deg winters go on the CLS 5 series Up Defners & the L405

Only the ill-informed dis Cold weather tyres

They make one hell of a difference

the ill informed and possibly the ones that cant afford to have two sets of wheels for their FF...


i still think that you dont need winter tyres here in the uk... ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
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I must be ill informed then. Not quite sure what "dis" means though. This forum used to be refreshingly free of txt spk.

I'm with you 100% Stan. If I recall, tyres was/is your profession, right ?

Well I know nothing about tyres

The winter / cold weather tyre debate can and always will go on forever

The choice is yours to make I made mine and afford well its a Range Rover forum so Afford is not a word I understand

Oh me I'm a fleet director who's also a trained engineer

correct Dom, 23 years of the black circles...  ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
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Respect your advice Stan - and given England is fairly temperate it is sensible.

When it snows though, I would want to be on winter tyres. Normal tyres are useless in snow.

here's a bit more fuel for the fire, when top gear and the like do tests on the FF or RRS they dont change the tyres when they transverse muddy fields being chased by sherman tanks , they keep to the normal road tyres and these tyres seem to propel these vehicles very well through these conditions..

but ,if you can afford to have two sets and if you need winter tyres because you live half way up a mountain and if we do manage to get 2 days of snow here in the UK then go for it.. ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
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I don't find the cost excessive. The car came with two sets, and you only wear them out one set at a time. I have plenty of storage space and change them myself - which I agree does take a bit of time.

I'm not sure I would have a dedicated winter set if I moved back to the UK. It would depend on circumstances, location and where/when I drove on holiday I think.

Anyway, if you are on summer tyres and have an accident on this pass in winter the Swiss police would rightly have a field day.

Click image to enlarge

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

its a bit different for david cos when you get snow its proper stuff and then you do need winter tyres.. ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
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This clip pops up at the end of the Snowdome Kuga tyre test. It shows behaviour in snow in Sweden first but more importantly it shows the behaviour in the rain in Germany with air temp 5.9 C and the road temp 4.2 C. The car with winter tyres does better by some 7 meters.

To me that is the real point of driving on winter tyres versus summer tyres. When the temp drops below say 10 degrees most of the time, the winter tyre shows better braking performance (and that is quite important for our heavy FFRRs).

There is however another aspect that I look at when choosing bike tyres (where grip to me is even more important). When I buy a new set of tyres for the bike (bearing in mind I ride high horsepower heavy bikes like the Kawasaki ZZR1400 and Suzuki B-King). I look at the tests of the best tyres for that year (usually the German magazines do a really good job) and then pick the best one for my bike and riding style.

I suggest that apart from the summer vs. winter tyre discussion we should expand it to, what is the best tyre for the particular car and driving conditions. In other words, you look at your car first, then take into account your driving needs, then the area where you use it (most) and then decide which tyre suits it best. So if you live in Malaysia, winter tyres are of course not an issue but a tyre that can cope with lots of rain is. In the UK I think you should look at where you live, the average winter temperatures day and night and then decide which particular tyre would suit that best.

I just had a quick look at the MetOffice climate averages and I think the south western part of the UK and probably more of the south you may not see enough low temp at the road level to need winter tyres. Going up north it does get well below the 10 or 7 or 5 C treshold.

And just a little clip of history, I used to drive a big GMC Van and then one day we had snow (didn't happen a lot in Holland like in the UK) and I had to go into town to get Chinese food. So very gingerly, bear in mind, automatic, no ABS, no traction control of any sorts, we crawled into town. Trying to parallel park was easy, just use the spinning rears to slide sideways . But it really brought home the uselessness of summer tyres in light snow.

I would definitely get a cheap set of RR wheels with winter tyres if I'd be living in an area that is cold enough for long enough to warrant it. Let's say below 10 C at road level for say at least 3 months per year.

The thing here is with all safety related issues, it is not about the statistics, it is about the concequences. If the chance that something goes wrong are small but the consequences are big, then it makes sense to do something about it. With our big cars, a small fender bender is likely to be more costly than investing in a set of winter tyres/wheels. When it comes to potentially hurting our own family/friends and the people around us, the cost goes up exponentially. Just imagine you hit the single income earner of a small family with kids and he/she is injured in a way they can't work. The impact on a family, even in a Western country is massive.

If something happens to me (because of my education and experience I can generate a comfortable level of income, my wife, who is a very good teacher can't generate that much income) the impact on our family is quite big. Just the cost of my girls education and medical needs is more than a normal family income per annum. If you crash into me and make it impossible for me to work and we'd have to rely on my wifes income potential, than life will be pretty "basic" for us. Now I can also afford income protection insurance but still, the family will be hit hard.

If you then extrapolate that to yourself/family/friends and people around you and then look at the annual cost of winter tyres/wheels, would it not make sense to look at them in that light.

I think the research (not just these little Auto Express clips) is pretty convincing that winter tyres do better at lower temperatures (say below 10 C) and are therefore safer (hence certain countries making them mandatory, like Germany if I'm correct).

Sorry for this longwinded post but it is something I feel about quite strongly, 25+ years in the O&G has definitely formed my outlook on Health and Safety and I have been taught to look at it in a different way then when I entered the industry. Having seen plenty of incidents over the years and more importantly seen the consequences on the injured/dead and their families has taught me one very important lesson. The cost of doing things safely almost ALWAYS outweighs the cost of making things safe in the first place. Piper Alpha and BP Makondo are very extreme examples of where small savings on safety have an enormous financial impact, however it works at all levels and to me winter tyres are one of them. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Thats my problem people think Winter Tyre and Snow its got fook all to do with snow its about cold weather (below 7 deg c)

Going forwards in a 4x4 is easy what about steering and stopping

Plenty of proof out there Yes we are in the best 4x4 in the world Yes rear wheel drive german cars benefit more perhaps

I have no choice as I drive abroad frequently I'm involved in Winter tyre training as part of my job

The one fact that is stopping distances are better by car lengths and that makes a difference

I'm OK with anyone deciding that winter tyres are not for them.

What winds me up is people who try to justify that decision by telling me that they make no difference

Mix your tyres, put on cheap tyres - whatever, just don't tell me it doesn't make a difference.

I want the best I can reasonably get and can justify paying for that.

It's that one time you hit some ice that matters, not the other 364 days of the year - last year someone skidded out of a side road straight in front of me - I was glad that I could stop and I'm not convinced I would have done if I still had the summer tyres on.

Anyway chaps my original post was that I could delay putting mine on this year as all my weather charts are showing it quite warm up till Christmas - but then again better safe than sorry

Sandy, I would just play it by ear as in wait till you get the temperatures near to where it makes sense to put them on . MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

To be honest thats what I normally do just there are some odd weather patterns looking forward so it may be warm for a while well warm for here