There is a lot that can be done to make an engine quiet. And to eliminate vibration. In addition, just as the technology in engine building is advancing, so the the technology in these fields. Sound cancellation is just one example. Would I buy a RR with a motor that feels like the venerable Ford 2.3L 4 cyl from the 70's (Capri, Escort, etc)? No. But it will not be like that in a RR.

The psychological aspect is a different issue. I can easily imagine that a 4 cyl RR will never happen because LR is afraid no one will buy it.

I'd have no prob buying one if it was powerful and refined enough. As far as I am concerned, TD6 level refinement is OK. The TD6 is def not as smooth as any of the V8s at full throttle. At part throttle it is, just fine tho. And if I'm driving it like a Porsche, I want to hear the motor. (Stock TD6 power levels do not suffice, tho)

And with the amount of driving I do (work is 55km one way), I need fuel economy. If I want to go fast, I hop in the Porsche  
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Quote:

I'd have no prob buying one if it was powerful and refined enough.

Me neither.

Hey I have a TD6 and it's bloody slow and noisy. Sure at part throttle it quietens down, but above 60mph you need enough throttle to make it noisy again. It's ok in my 11 year old car, but if I was buying new I'd expect much better these days.

Hey, here's a funny thing. If a 2.0 4 cylinder diesel in the L405 had 250bhp it would have similar performance to the 4.4 V8 in the L322.

Quote:

The psychological aspect is a different issue. I can easily imagine that a 4 cyl RR will never happen because LR is afraid no one will buy it.

2.0L in a FFRR is so very wrong

Range Rovers are renowned for being big thirsty expensive vehicles, just think if they suddenly become economical and reasonably priced
All the poor people will be trading in their Nissans, Fords, Renaults etc, cashing in their ISAs, spending their kids inheritance money and buying them...


Not looking good

LR did a "budget" Disco 1 some years ago and dropped what they called the 'MPI' 2L petrol in it, then put it on weaker springs and it was a huge failure.

These days modern engines are so advanced I am not sure the actual capacity makes a difference, it's all the other factors....isn't VW's new 2L petrol turbo the most powerful factory golf to date ?

a 2L 400BHP petrol is nothing new, but will need so be smooth to be in a RR. It's a painful drive in a Mitsubishi Evo, trust me ! Is this where I put the car details and a bit about myself ?........

Will it have a sound Emulatorlike the new M-power cars & VW R Lines

I believe the Disco 1 MPI was done for the Italian market where there were tax issues for above 2l engines at the time. They had developed it so sold a few over here Montego Engine if memory serves.
The move as already said will be towards small efficent high output engines where that will leave the Big 4x4 ???

waiting to be shot down! Mine was a blue one!

KurtVerbose wrote:

Hey I have a TD6 and it's bloody slow and noisy. Sure at part throttle it quietens down, but above 60mph you need enough throttle to make it noisy again. It's ok in my 11 year old car, but if I was buying new I'd expect much better these days.

You need a remap. I am not unhappy w/the acceleration. As a matter of fact (and I've said this before), I was disappointed by the TDV8. I was expecting a much bigger difference to my TD6. There is a bigger difference on the Autobahn. Even with a remap, my TD6 runs out of oomph at around 150kmh. The TDV8 only starts running out when you approach 200kmh. But that is a pretty isolated issue for Germany.

KurtVerbose wrote:

Hey, here's a funny thing. If a 2.0 4 cylinder diesel in the L405 had 250bhp it would have similar performance to the 4.4 V8 in the L322.

Hop back into a RRC with a 3.5L. The V8 rumble is still there, but every econobox on the road will leave you behind from a light.
 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

A few comments as I'm trying to avoid a work challenge

The big 4x4 is under threat again. Not from the Green Party because it isn't possible to make it more eco-friendly but because to do that you have to lose weight to allow downsizing of the engine to improve economy and retain performance. If you lose weight you have a 4x4 that is restricted in towing capacity, one of the reasons for a 'big 4x4' for many, myself included. So how much weight can you lose before that 3500kg capability is under threat and the doors wobble in the breeze. [We certainly will not give up our electric motors which drive convenience features - so weight saving has to come from elsewhere. I count 44 in mine without pumps].

The raison d'être of the FFRR, as often repeated on this forum, is the ability to waft along. Traditionally because of a big lazy engine. If JLR can fit a drivetrain with 'waft-ability', refinement and sufficient performance then most buyers will not be put off. There will be a change in the way marketing is carried out no doubt. The choice will change from "would Sir (or Madam) like a V6 or a V8, 3.0, 4.4 or 5.0 litre?" to "sufficient, brisk or fast". I'm mindful that Rolls Royce never revealed power outputs or engine details in the past.

Ebajema - you are right about the possibilities of generators etc. Think how effective wheel motors would be in off-road situations where you can get rid of drive shafts. However, where this has been tried before (CVT transmissions try and run the engine/generator at optimum performance) there has been a rejection by the buyers, mainly because the noise does not conform to the 'perception' of how a car should sound. Isolate the noise completely and .....

Would I have a four cylinder FFRR. I love the performance of mine so if it matches that and is refined enough to pass the 'waft' test, sure why not? If it was a 4 cylinder FFRR or nothing - definitely. Or I could keep my dirty old antiquated L405 SDV8!

Nick 2019 D5 HSE Lux SDV6 Indus
55 D3 SE
98 MX5 1.8 RS
gone 17 older variants of FFRR

The days of big V8 diesels are surely numbered (see BMW, VW Group). There are large enough markets to keep the big petrols going for some time I imagine.

As for towing and weight - a 90 truck cab is rated for 3500kg and weighs a good half a tonne less than a new Range Rover.

Although they lasted a long time, all dinosaures have disapeared. Give it another 5 or 7 years and our cars will be valued at zero and regarded as the thing not to have or buy, so enjoy while your can.

Nick I agree with you and I also know that a few companies are already developing sound generators, just to make electric cars sound like whatever you like. Some people will be put off by fake noise and a lot won't.

I agree that if the FFRR can give me the performance and waftability with a 2L package, whatever it is, I'd go for it in a heartbeat. I would hopefully be able to keep my 5.0 SC as a "classic car" forever anyway, or at least as long as we can buy petrol

I have seen what hub motors can do (the PML Flightlink test mini had over 600 bhp peak power) and they are selling them to the big manufacturers (tried to buy them for my trike but they don't sell them to individuals) for their hybrids and electric cars. And others are also developing them. Indeed the absence of drive shaft and drive train makes a huge difference.

Just imagine you remove the entire drive train of a FFRR, diffs, gearbox the lot. Now imagine a light 2L engine with a generator and a small gearbox as the engine will be running at "optimum" speed almost always, so fixed RPM i.e. a very simple gearbox. The hub motors do weigh a bit but still, plenty of weight left for the ever improving batteries and voila, you have a very capable offroad vehicle with much bigger ground clearance when you need it and incredibly good control over the wheel traction. You can even run one wheel clockwise and another counterclockwise. You can do things with that car that no mechanical driven car can ever do !!!

In short, the future is e-drive without fossil fuel engine anyway. The future is full electric and hydrogen fuel cell electric. The Third Industrial Revolution of Jeremy Rifkin describes how and why.

I just hope that I can keep running my 5.0 for decades as a classic while driving a FFRR that is full electric (with hydrogen fuel cell range extender) as a daily driver. The trike will be a full electric one as well (rear wheel drive only )

The future is bright and JLR are just doing their best to keep up and bless their little hearts for it  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

With all this talk of endangered big V8 4x4s, I'm willing to part with my4.0L V8 Disco 1 if someone gives me a crazily big offer.

20p

[quote="Nick Ground"]Axle is right, times are changing.

The Merc 4 cylinder is a gruff old unit compared to many other diesels, but produces plenty of output.

The JLD engine is cam is chain driven so it's unlikely that access is needed!

Nick[/quote]

I don't think anyone is arguing with the output that these units provide infact they are excellent

BUT and this is the major problem for me - refinement. YOU WILL NOT get anywhere near the same refinement from a 3 lite+ as you would from a 2 litre or less.

I have driven many many 2 litre lumps from merc, audi, BMW, Jag etc and they are nothing compared to the 3 litre versions. They are world apart in refinement and delivery.

The only 2 litre I can stomach is the BMW I had matched with the 8 speed auto in a 5 series M sport I had but even that occassionally annoyed me.

Not sure if hybrid would mitigate this