hi, on slightly older ZF gearboxe models, there was a known age related problem, with motion shaft seals leaking, meaning that: if you took it out of drive, (on a slightly worn box) and revved it in neutral/park, the shaft seals would leak pump pressure to the first clutch and gently burn out your box. there where hundreds of bmw 7, and other similar cars laying on MOT pits with no drive, after smog/ emission testing. (reverse was the 1st gear backwards) you could repair it without a full strip down, (i did my 1st gear as it went kapoot) but now, whilst driving, I NEVER REV THE ENGINE AFTER SELECTING N OR P in case of a repeat on modern ZF's.. the solution, was to drive onto MOT pit, swtich off, and restart in p, and then revv it all you like. ( it was the 4HP22 box, same as my old classic) it lurched slightly if you revved it after going back to N or P -my classic's box had this exact fault. So guys, dont rev it at the 1st chance to warm the engine etc.
secondly, here, i live in London, if you don't move away with traffic lights on red and amber, (uk before going green) you were up for a hooting coz you don't get long on green here! so, you dont want Mr van-man/taxi geezer scaring the birds in the trees just coz you are releasing the HB and selecting D. but I do select N whenever there is a proper hold up like some road rage, or van-man in front chatting to his mate pulled up in other direction. I've given up hooting myself. it makes me more angry after i have hooted!. wondering though, i i can fit these in the FF

here is the very popular thread to the l322 V8 gearbox common fault i was thinking about earlier.... http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/6-range-r...rdown.html

If sitting at lights or in traffic I knock mine into Neutral, it also helps because if you're sitting for a while you tend to do stuff, like check your phone/emails etc, and if you stop paying full and proper attention you might slip your foot off the brake and if you were in Drive, ...well, you know how that ends.

If it's a LONG traffic jam I always put in Park and put the TV on!  Discovery 4 HSE
1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF
1982 Series 3 Hard Top

*Gone:L462 D5 HSE LUX, L663 Defender 110 HSE, Discovery 3 HSE, 2014MY Range Rover Sport 5.0 Supercharged AB Dynamic; L405 Exec Vogue SE 4.4, 5.0 Supercharged Autobiography, Defender TDCi XS CSW, Defender TD5 HT, Vogue SE TDV8, Vogue TD6, RRSport SC 4.2V8, Classic 3.9 Vogue Auto, Land Rover Series 3 SWB

If I arrived at lights and they were red I would keep it in D, as they might change straight away. If I approach and they turn red I put it in N as I will be there just a bit longer. Previously..
Vogue SE TD6
Defender 90 2.4
Defender 110 TD5
Vogue 3.5 EFI

I always go to N on stopping at lights. However , before getting used to this, I had the problem of occasionally rolling back, as I released the handbrake and gave gas to no avail I forgot I was in N and not D . (It is very hilly here. )luckily, the car behind always was well back.( probably saw my grey hair and wisely was not that close!)
I use N because of the very perceptible body vibration which occurs in D, and I imagine that long term it must cause damage somewhere. Vibrations can do more damage long term as opposed to a forceful hard tap, and do have many industrial applications today? Range Rover Vogue TD6 2002
Defender TD5 90Hard Top 2001
Range Rover Classic TDi 1994
Mercedes Benz 1959 220S Sedan

Surely you re-engage drive before releasing handbrake?

That's the problem. I thought I was in drive already, forgetting I was in N. now that it's a habit, I DO remember to put it in drive, before releasing the brake! ( you'll understand this when you get to my age , one day) Range Rover Vogue TD6 2002
Defender TD5 90Hard Top 2001
Range Rover Classic TDi 1994
Mercedes Benz 1959 220S Sedan

So this is a very good question that I have been asking myself over the last few months. I have recently decided to do the following:

Brief stop at red lights, say anything from around 15 seconds - Leave it in D, apply electronic handbrake, wait for lights to change and simply apply accelerator, handbrake electronically comes off.

Anything longer than 15-20 seconds or knowingly come to a halt that is going to be longer than 20 seconds - Car in to NEUTRAL then apply electronic handbrake. Before moving off, apply footbrake, engage D and then apply accelerator (sometimes I will also disengage electronic handbrake at the same time as engaging D, that's just through habit though).

My only top tip would be that the PARK gearshift is just for that, PARKING, you are not parked on the motorway or at a long set of red lights........ yes I agree if your behind an accident (god forbid) then you can put the car in PARK and turn the engine off - IN FACT THERE WE GO, IF YOU INTEND TO TURN YOUR ENGINE OFF, THEN AND ONLY THEN PUT YOUR CAR IN TO PARK.

I once heard that they were going to call 'P' 'TEOP' but it was too long, (Turn Engine Off Park) - lol I'm only joking.

ENJOY ALL

mjdronfield wrote:

....of course in extreme cases, after a period of hard braking down a slip road for eg, I wouldn't sit with my foot on the brakes in case the disks warp.

I know its unlikely, but I'd kick myself if they did.

The disks need to cool down at an even rate, which doesn't happen if you have the pads pressed against them........

I never use P when actually driving. Only when parked - ie car locked up and in garage etc.

Dare say some disagree.........?

I don't do it either it doesn't make sense putting strain where its not needed.

As for warping disks I have warped 2 sets of front discs when I had my disco due to sitting with foot on brake. Living at the top of a mountain means long steep downhill which inevitably end in junctions. So after braking a lot I was too lazy to apply handbrake and the pads held the heat on the disks while the rest of it cooled. It took me doing it twice to learn  09 TDV8 Westminster, Mariana Black, Rear seat entertainment, hatch bag and 2 slobbery mutts

Interesting video showing how the torque converter works and explains why you get some creep at tick over.

 Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

Just watch you don't do what I did recently when I selected N at the traffic lights. Lights change to green, I subconsciously think I'm still in D and release the brake and press on the accelerator! result- revving the tits off the car and going nowhere, then having to hit the brake, select D and finally drive off!

Also - using manual when driving. I got so used to doing this on a very long run last week. We parked up, stopped the car and visited a pub. I then got back in, drove off and selected N thinking I was changing up! Good job R isn't directly above D isn't it!
Easy done I suppose.

I try to put the car in neutral as often as possible when stationary. I'm no technical expert but it was how I was taught to drive - When stationary select neutral, apply handbrake.
However I can see why a lot of drivers with automatic gearboxes go straight to park when stationary. Travelling around in circles again.

I'm surprised no-one's brought up Land Rover's view on the matter...

Page 157 of the Owner's Manual (on Topix) states to put it into Neutral when stationary in traffic (with regards to fuel economy anyway). Undecided as to the mechanical wear aspects as I have not dismantled an automatic gearbox yet (couple of manuals yes).

Handbrake, Neutral . Then select Drive ,release handbrake and drive off.

It's been that way for years .Do it without thinking .