That's excellent news.

Except now I have no idea as to how to correctly jack up my car.

Don't remember anything in the manual about changing heights first etc.

I shall check it again when I'm in the garage (where the manual is).

Do we have a specific

....put in off road mode, leave door/tailgate open etc then ?

Cheers
Mark 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Pretty sure that there is nothing specific in my manual. However whin i went to kwickies they were very careful to raise it an leave a door open.

However central tyre did nothing special and they do all of the work for our local MD. There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

There is nothing specific in the manual for my 2003 car, so I assume I could do the same as the garage then, and end up popping the air bags.

Playing devils advocate here, but if there is nothing specific in the manual, how could you prove the garage have done it wrong ?

If you see what I mean - what have they admitted liability for actually doing (or not doing ) ?

Cheers
Mark 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

I would have expected for the tyre fitters to be liable they must have been negligent. Jacking up the car and exposing a latent defect such as a perished 10 year old airbag, or a worn air hose connector does not sound negligent to me.

It will be interesting to hear when they finally pay out, as they will probably investigate, defend and backtrack on what ever they have told you, when they receive the claim.

You're lucky it did not happen whilst changing a flat tyre beside the road, at least this way you have someone to blame. 
Gone - Range Rover Supercharged 2006

I'm puzzled by the advice to open a door or rear hatch before jacking the RR up. I cannot find any reference to this in any handbook from 2002 on and wondered where this advice comes from as Land Rover do not seem to be aware of the need. They do mention not locking the car or double locking to prevent the anti-tilt alarm sounding.

As I'm shortly moving up from a Sport to a Westminster I want to make sure I don't make a stupid mistake and damage the suspension airbags if changing a wheel sometime.

Having a door open would stop the air suspension from changing heights automatically, or trying to level the car out.

Assume thats whats required if you put the car into a non standard height to jack up.

As to where the advice comes from, I don't know. Nothing in mymanual.

Mark 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

mjdronfield wrote:

Having a door open would stop the air suspension from changing heights automatically, or trying to level the car out.

Assume thats whats required if you put the car into a non standard height to jack up.

As to where the advice comes from, I don't know. Nothing in mymanual.

Mark

Mark, Looking at the 2012 handbook the only reference to the suspension is to ensure it is in On-road or normal setting ( my MY11 Sport handbook says Offroad height in comparison).

I think this is an Urban Myth designed to catch new owners , but I'll wait for someone to prove the suspension height would change while jacked up. Seems such a dangerous thing to happen I'm surprised warning notices are not plastered all over the handbook.

Is this a joke thread?

The bags are have a limited lifetime, they will eventually perish and leak, thats life. They cannot over extend whilst properly fitted. The droplinks prevent the suspension over extending, end of.

If they go they go because they are knackered.

Sorry, but as a small business owner I side with the garage on this.

I think the reason for doors open/closed etc is so that whilst working on the suspension you don't want it to be trying to blow the bags up, just pull the fuse on the compressor, fuse 57.

Try using common sense. 03 4.4 V8 petrol / lpg. 1st of many hopefully. I love my Rangie

I still doubt it is actually the airbags. It seems highly unlikely to me that they would both pop at the same time. I think it is probably something that links the air supply to both that is damaged.

I'm sure as a small business owner you would accept blame if it turned out to be your (employee's) fault. But you would want it investigated first to find out what the cause was. Airbags do wear out but it is still possible it was improper jacking that caused it if, for example, they have jacked it up using a non-approved jacking point and managed to damage something that way.

The height setting stuff for jacking is . It doesn't matter what height it is in. RAVE says nothing about setting the height first, and there's two whole pages on how to jack it up, so it's just the usual internet myth of repeating what someone else said.

The suspension ECU has some intelligence in it to detect when the car is being jacked up. Here's what RAVE says:

Quote:

Vehicle Lift

The air suspension ECU will inhibit all height changes and corrections if it detects all four corner heights are greater
than 90 mm. This is interpreted as the vehicle being on a wheels free car lift with all wheels hanging freely. In this
situation, the corner heights will not change when air is released from the air springs. The system will remain inhibited
until any of the following conditions exist:
* All four corner heights fall below 90 mm
* The rotary switch is moved to the 'UP' or 'DOWN' position.
* Vehicle speed rises to greater than 25 mph (40 km/h) for longer than 3 seconds.


Vehicle Jack

The air suspension ECU will inhibit all height changes and corrections if it detects a corner lowering too slowly for
more than 3 seconds. This is interpreted as the corner identified as moving too slowly being supported on a jack. In
this situation, the corner height will not change when air is released from the air spring because the jack acts as a
mechanical prop. The system will remain inhibited until any of the following conditions exist:
* The height of the wheel identified as lowering too slowly, returns to the height where jacking was detected.
* The rotary switch is moved to the 'UP' or 'DOWN' position.
* Vehicle speed rises to greater than 25 mph (40 km/h) for longer than 3 seconds.

Whatever, regarding the small business comment.

As I mentioned, jacking is unlikely the cause.

The droplinks stop the suspension overextending so the techno babble about jacking is irrelevant

Both of my bags went at once, they were both the same make, delphie and they both looked old and had cracked showing obvious leaks.

If one goes wouldn't it be fair to assume the added pressure on the other would cause that to go too?

Again, common sense. 03 4.4 V8 petrol / lpg. 1st of many hopefully. I love my Rangie

[quote="ric355"]

The height setting stuff for jacking is

From the 2012 handbook:-

WHEEL CHANGING
Ensure the air suspension is set to ‘on road’ or ‘normal’ height.
Note: Your vehicle may be fitted with a tilt sensor which activates the alarm if the vehicle is tilted in any direction after it has been locked. To lock the doors while changing the wheel, and avoid the alarm activating, press the smart key lock button twice within 10 seconds. If you prefer to use the door key, use it in the driver’s door lock and turn towards the rear of the vehicle twice within 10 seconds.

I wonder why Land Rover bother to put this instruction in the handbook if it is complete nonsense as suggested. Incidentally, my Sport says to select off road height before jacking. I certainly would not be prepared to ignore the instruction if it meant I could be left with a huge repair bill.

Admittedly some years handbooks do not mention setting any particular ride height but if anyones handbook gives a setting, it would be sensible to follow those instructions.

TBH, I have no idea why LR chose to write this. If I (we) figure it out, we'll post. I have a feeling it may have more to do with the silly, weak scissors jack than anything else. AFAIK it is not mentioned in the service literature on Topix (so a garage would not worry about this) - but I will have a check when I get the chance.

Excepting the case of very old, dry rotted bags, the height you are in when you begin jacking does not make that much of a difference. When you change a height setting, you aren't moving a strut or spring up and down, you are just inflating or deflating a spring - meaning that you are moving within the suspension's range of travel. And this range is determined by the end stops on the shock absorbers (dampers) in droop and bump stops on compression. It does not change. So jacking from access height will yield the same amount of droop as jacking from off-road height.

In the case of very old, dry rotted bags/springs (and I assume this was the case here as SSS's RR is a 2002), the springs are very used to operating w/in their normal range. Here, they roll themselves up and unroll themselves again and keep these bits bendy - while the rest of the rubber becomes hard and brittle. When you jack the car up, you go beyond this range. And when you jack the car up from a lower height setting there is not enough air left to keep the bag ballooned out and it starts to collapse in upon itself bending in all sorts of ways it never bent in its entire lifetime. And the brittle bits break - or the spring pops off it's end piston (a P38 malaise). So having them as full of air as poss and starting from off road position (as Gaz suggested) can help get some more life out of a spring.

I once read that LR recommended that the P38 only be lifted on a 4 post wheel lift (not a chassis lift). What a bunch of baloney (all the more if it was true). A bit of spirited driving and a dip in the road and the suspension will go to full droop. And the springs can pop off/tear/etc (BTDT ). A spring in that condition should be replaced.

Unless there is an untold bit of story here, if SSS is getting 2 new struts for free, she made out like a bandit.  
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Your explanation sound spot-on Steve, great post.

From the handbook ...

WHEEL CHANGING
If possible, choose a safe place to stop away
from the main highway. Always ask your
passengers to get out of the vehicle and wait in
a safe area away from other traffic. Disconnect
any attached trailer or caravan.
Note: Switch on the hazard warning lamps and
set the hazard warning triangle a suitable
distance behind the vehicle, to alert other road
users.
Before changing a wheel, ensure the front
wheels are in the straight ahead position (if
possible), apply the handbrake, select P (Park)
and select LOW range in the transfer box.
Turn off the starter switch, remove the key and
engage the steering lock. Observe the following
precautions:
• Ensure the jack will be positioned on firm,
level ground; NEVER on soft ground, or
over metal gratings or manhole covers. DO
NOT place additional material between the
jack and the ground, this may jeopardise
the safety of the jacking operation.
• Chock the wheels. See Using wheel
chocks.
If jacking the vehicle on a slope is
unavoidable, place the chocks on the
downhill side of the two opposite wheels.
• NEVER raise the vehicle with passengers
inside, or with a caravan or trailer
connected!
Tilt sensor
Your vehicle is fitted with a tilt sensor which
activates the alarm if the vehicle is tilted fore
and aft, or side to side, after it has been locked.
If you wish to have the doors locked while
jacking up the vehicle, for any reason, lock the
doors by pressing the lock button twice within
10 seconds. If you use the key to lock the
doors, turn the key in the driver's door lock
towards the rear of the vehicle twice within 10
seconds.
Using wheel chocks
WARNING
Before raising the vehicle, as an additional
safety precaution, it is advisable to chock the
road wheels in two places.
If possible, position the vehicle on level ground,
chocking both sides of the wheel diagonally
opposite the one to be removed.
If jacking the vehicle on a slope is unavoidable,
place the chocks on the downhill side of the two
opposite wheels.
The wheel chocks are stowed in the spare wheel
well, as shown in the TOOL KIT, 228. Land Rover Addict
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Wot Steve said; anyone who has worked on truck/trailer bags will agree; everythings great till u ask it to do something it has not done for years, like full extension or full droop. Bit like meself now I come to think about it.......it sounds like one bags gone, then the other has collapsed cos all the chuff chuff chuff came out the front end.