Good afternoon all

Come January/February next year we are planning to change out of our 2011 Vogue 4.4 TDV8 into an L405. Our L322 has been great. We have had it for two years, and until recently it was under LR warranty. It hasn't been fault free, but it has always got us home. Niggles have included failed oil cooler, rusty tailgate, new suspension airbag and strut and a couple of sensor mishaps. All done under warranty. We also did the oil drain mod (repeated DPF issues due to living in central London and spending time in slow traffic).

I'm posting because within the 405 world I'm wondering whether to go diesel or petrol, and what spec is best value. To give you an idea of our criteria:

- We live in London, and our mileage is fairly limited. A lot of the time car is used for inter-London trips. We have a young family, and love cycling, hiking, visiting family outside London in the countryside. We like weekends away/trips to France/throwing stuff in the back/carrying bikes. General family wagon. I guess 7-8k a year is typical. For fun I have some other classics/sports cars, albeit they don't get used much these days due to the family commitments.
- Plan to hold the new car for three years.
- I prefer to buy cars cash, and budget is likely to be £50k. Could stretch to £60k if need be. Car must be under LR warranty. Not too worried about fuel costs. Appreciate that big depreciation on these cars is a fact of life, but would be a nice bonus if we choose a spec/engine that will minimise depreciation cost. Our current L322 has not cost much to run from a servicing/repairs perspective - depreciation will be the main cost of our tenure over two years.
- Happy to buy privately, as long as the car is still under LR warranty. Although main dealer stock preferred.

My initial thought was to go for a 4.4SDV8, an early car (2013), Vogue spec, around 50k on the clock. Would like tow bar, pan roof and privacy glass. Prices for these at a main dealer are now down to £43k. This seems like great value. However, I'm concerned about the following:

- do the earlier cars need the oil drain mod doing? I think I read somewhere that a frequently blocked DPF is common on the earlier cars. Is this something that should/can be done under warranty?
- is it worth spending an extra 4-5k for a Vogue SE model? This seems to be the delta between a Vogue and a Vogue SE of similar vintage and mileage, but I'm not clear what this gets me in terms of 'kit'.
- does a 2014 or even 2015 car bring significant advantages?
- with diesel not being the flavour of the month, do we see the diesel Rangies taking a big tumble in value over the next three years (compared to the 5.0 petrol)?

As an alternative, I have been looking at the 5.0 Autobiography. With tow, privacy glass, less than 50k on the clock, it seems that these are starting just under £60k at a main dealer. So probably £15k to £17k more than the equivalent 4.4TDV8. That's a big step up in cost. However, I wonder if the petrol engine will actually be a better choice over the medium term - no DPF issues, lovely sound/smoother over distance, and perhaps less of an ogre in light of the declining popularity of the diesels. Would the car still be worth, say, £10-12k more than the equivalent diesel in three years time?

can't stretch to the new P400e (although it looks great) and the older hybrid is now old tech, so I'm discounting that as an option.

Grateful to hear your thoughts - ownership experiences, pitfalls of the various models, and maybe even some crystal ball predictions as to how the popularity of the diesel/petrol engine cars will change in the medium term.

Cheers!

Westminster are already creaming money from diesel car drivers, it's surely only a matter of time before Citizen Khan sees an opportunity to find favour with idiots and do the same.

I've experienced both 4.4V8 and 5.0SC in L405 form. For your intended use I'd go diesel everyday without question. The torque characteristics of the diesel make it far superior in London traffic, the petrol car can be a bit hesitant in traffic and will be way more expensive fuel wise.
Diesels won't be punished that badly residual wise against the petrol car either, there's very few petrol cars available and with a keen bunch of wannabee upgraders the diesel will always be in demand and hold on to a reasonable residual value. With your low mileage you will have a better chance than most as you can buy a higher mileage car at a lower price and in 2-3 years the mileage will become more of an average mileage for the year so potential gains there albeit fairly small.

Vogue SE is seen as the sweet spot in the range but I had a Vogue and now an AB and I don't notice a huge difference. I never use the all round camera, the extra leather is nice, the seats are much comfier but it drives very similar to a Vogue. Adaptable suspension is the only element to me that seems worth the extra cost. To be honest the electric back seats are a pain when you need to fold them, really slow too.

My suggestion is try a nice later 3.0 Vogue and if it's too basic then look further up the range until you hit your sweet spot.

I am watching this thread like a hawk as I am in a very similar position. Can currently get a 2013 SDV8 Autobiography with Executive rear seats including massage function, etc. with 62000miles for GBP50228 - still have a few miles (200miles to be exact) left under LR warranty and maintenance plan.

Similar 5.0SC vehicles are advertised at GBP61348 with lower mileage (50000miles). Not having owned a diesel before and being used to the 4.2SC not sure whether I will make a mistake in buying the diesel.

To compound matters further I also consider buying a 2012 Maserati GranTurismo S 4.7 (as an alternative to the L405) at the same price point with 38000miles but no warranty or maintenance plan

Part of this is finding the right car at the right price, and diesels are much more plentiful. The 4.4 SDV8 suits the 405 well and the torque does make for a relaxing driving experience, with enough power to overtake etc. However, the legislative background is a potential challenge in London. Older cars will be Euro 5 (DPF but no Adblue) and so more likely to face restrictions. I think Euro 6 started in Sept 2015, so a 65 on car should face fewer restrictions. See what the Budget brings as regards road tax, I think P Hammond has already said that diesels would cost more, but that might just be for new cars, and in any event the extra cost to buy/run the 5.0 SC would probably outweigh that.

I think the early cars have the same set-up as late 322 4.4 TDV8s, my experience is that LR do not contribute to the cost of the drain mod, unless you get lots of smoke at higher revs and you have their warranty.

Specs changed around over the years. The early SEs had adaptive cruise control and better audio over the Vogue as the main differences, later there were semi-aniline seats too, but as the cars are built to order your best bet is to compare specs of individual cars.

Depreciation is impossible to predict, I'd focus on getting the right car for your driving: my assumption is that it will be 25% reducing balance and if it is better than that it is a bonus.

If it were me I would go for the 5.0SC, but maybe the thing is to stick with your 322 until the regulatory environment is clearer. Only Range Rovers since 1988

Thanks CS.

Fortunately the UK (London) regulations does not affect me - I am in the sunny South Africa where emission control is not as rigid as in the European and other countries.


My first option would also be the 5.0SC; however, this specific diesel at GBP12k less than the 5.0SC seems to be a very attractive option.

Fuelwise, it could possibly be the more prudent option as 1) I tow both a boat and caravan from time and 2) I do about 25000miles per annum.

Still a tough choice - that Maserati GTS is also calling - choices, choices

Sorry vnitos, I was really responding to the OP. Assuming you can get good enough quality diesel where you are driving the diesel would be more practical considering the towing and your mileage. The exec seating is less practical and might reduce the price as fewer people seem to want it, you will have noted that the 2018 model does not have that fixed 4-seat configuration option any more. Only Range Rovers since 1988

Thanks all.

SC - particularly interesting that the 4.4SDV8 only became Euro 6 in September 2015. I had no idea! Thank you for flagging. I was aware that the L322 4.4TDV8 (i.e. my current car) was Euro 5, but then thought that for the L405 it became Euro 6 when the model was launched for 2013. There's quite a jump from an early 2013 SDV8 to a 65 plate/late 2015 car (around £10k for similar spec and mileage, so £53k plus). Other than getting a newer machine with slightly uprated tech, the change in Euro rating certainly makes the £10k jump seem worthwhile. Maybe I should be thinking about a newer diesel.

Interestingly a Euro 6 compliant diesel (i.e. post September 2015) is not much cheaper than a 2013/2015 5.0 SC. Which in a way makes the petrol case more compelling!

As an aside, the new London emissions charge which comes in shortly (October 23) will exempt euro 5 cars (like the earlier 4.4SDV8) - initial minimum standard is euro 4. But I fear that over the next few years this will tighten - I would not be surprised if Euro 6 becomes the minimum standard very soon.

vnitos - the executive seats look great, although as CS points out, they aren't in demand over here - in fact the cars with those seats tend to be somewhat cheaper on the used market. would certainly be a deal breaker for me, but that's down to what I use the car for. I can see that if you are only travelling four up and don't need to carry large loads, it's a great option to have.

*meant to say CS! apologies

Foregone conclusion that City Hall will give diesel a kicking (apart from the cabs and buses that actually cause the issues), councils too - Islington already charge diesel owners more for resident permits.

AndyS wrote:

The petrol car can be a bit hesitant in traffic.

AndyS wrote:

I've experienced both 4.4V8 and 5.0SC in L405 form. For your intended use I'd go diesel everyday without question. The torque characteristics of the diesel make it far superior in London traffic, the petrol car can be a bit hesitant in traffic and will be way more expensive fuel wise.

I’m not sure the case can always be made for spending extra on a Euro 6 vs Euro 5, depending on the purchase price jump and depending on how frequently one drives into the charging zones. Latest congestion charge toxicity charge only affects Euro 4, and is only a very small part of London. ULEZ (inside all of M25) only affects local residents driving Euro 5 from ~2023 onwards.

So I say depending on your journey habits etc do your sums and potentially save thousands by accepting a nicely specced Euro 5 L405. And if you have £50k budget then definitely go Euro 5 SDV8, I bet your toxicity charges would be £1000 at most over 5 years (100 trips into Westminster!).

Hi gentlemen.

7 years later, and I'd like to reopen this thread.
The wife currently drives a Range Rover Evoque 2.0 Si4 Dynamic.
I am in the market for a 2020-2022 L494 Range Rover Sport, as it is time to get something bigger for our family.
I am going back and forth between the SDV8 and the P525 (5.0SC).
We are in South Africa, where emission control is not as rigid - so that does not play a role in my decision.
Not too worried about fuel costs either.

I would appreciate it if anyone on this thread could revisit it and give us some further insights to what you have experienced in the last couple of years.

Thank you.

@anchorman, what did you end up deciding on? How is it going for you?