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D3Jon



Member Since: 15 Aug 2020
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 418

United Kingdom 
Re: 4.4TDV8 “SUICIDE” Hesitation, Good INDY Specialist R

Benjerbustmills wrote:
<SNIP>At first, it goes then, it’s like all brakes go on, and i depress the accelerator much more, and probably two seconds later, we’re off at a million miles an hour. <SNIP>


Are the brakes actually coming on? Or is that just a term of phrase?

I ask, because I've had a faulty ABS sensor on an (admittedly) early L322 with the BMW ABS system and it would apply the brakes when trying to set off, despite full throttle. Turns out this was caused by a faulty rear ABS sensor. It would hardly move, with the ABS pump rattling away, brakes on, and then it would clear and take off. Just a thought...

Jon 1992 RR Classic 3.9 efi Vogue
2014 Disco 4 HSE
===================
Both my fatties now gone...
Previous: 2011 L322 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE /// 2002 L322 4.4 V8 HSE /// 2009 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 XS /// 2004 Defender 90 TD5 /// 1993 110 V8 Snatch Landrover /// 2005 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 SE (Aus) /// 1990 110 Isuzu 3.9 County (Aus) /// 1976 Series III Trayback (Aus)

Post #679790 8th Dec 2023 11:13am
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Benjerbustmills



Member Since: 24 Mar 2021
Location: Thornbury , Bristol
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover HSE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

Some excellent suggestions…. All very much appreciated.
I’ve been out and driven it around in “Sport”
Mode, and it does seem much less hesitant. Yes it’s basically only done 100 miles a week, and now it’s got me behind the wheel.
When I first had it, I pretty much had “DPF” full warning.
Dealer told me to drive it hard, so I ranted it around in command shift for an hour or so, which cleared it, and dealers did a forced regen.
I’ll start my cleaning the MAP sensor, and see what happens then.
Really happy with the car….
I prefer it to my 405, so that will have to go!
Wife not impressed with, 2 RR, and 2 Hippos!

2012 4.4 HSE
2016 SDV6 Autobiography
2004 2.5 V6 Sport Hippo
2002 TD4 3 dr Kalahari

Post #679802 8th Dec 2023 1:46pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 3195

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Driving it hard doesn't clear the DPF - you need long steady M-way trips to do this. If it's been short --tripped all it's life it would benefit from some dismantling of the intake components to manualy remove the soot/oil 'tar' buildup esp in the intake 'donout' where the MAP sensor plugs into, the throttle plate and the EGR connector pipe. Nasty messy job but there is lots of info on here how it's done 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #679810 8th Dec 2023 4:01pm
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Haylands



Member Since: 04 Mar 2014
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 8190

England 2014 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Loire Blue

The hesitation is a common'ish issue but tends to vary from mild to severe, one way to sort it is with a remap, 95% of it can be mapped out... Thumbs Up Pete

__________________________________________________
2014 L405 Autobiography SDV8 4.4 Loire Blue Ebony interior
2011 L322 Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8 Baltic Blue. Parchment over Navy Interior. Sold
2012 L322 Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged Ipanema Sand, Jet Interior. Sold
2002 L322 Vogue 4.4 V8 Epson Green, Ivory over Aspen Interior (Fatty Offroader) Sold
-Click for Project Fatty off roader-

Post #679819 8th Dec 2023 5:26pm
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hotpotatojr



Member Since: 05 Oct 2021
Location: Blackpool
Posts: 71

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Santorini Black

I've had mine remapped (Quantum Tuning). Under load, it definitely feels more responsible with the obvious boost of torque and power. But it didn't fix the hesitation issues from a standstill.
If I'm pulling out of a junction/roundabout from a standstill, I'll brake boost and there are no issues (I left foot brake). However, if rolling up to a junction (left foot on brake without coming to a stop), then accelerate out into a gap straight away, I experience what you describe as 'suicide' hesitation - it cuts the power, takes a second or so then kicks back in full force. Not fun when you're staring at somebody on your right hand side Smile
I figured it was something to do with holding the brake while accelerating?
Not sure if we are both experiencing the same issue, but try driving down the road and left foot brake while holding the throttle with your right foot and you'll see what I mean - it cuts the power. I thought it may be a safety feature in case someone passes out at the wheel?
I'd love to get it mapped out, along with a gearbox map. But I can't find anyone who does it for a ZF8 on the L322....

Post #679842 8th Dec 2023 10:09pm
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cass



Member Since: 12 Oct 2011
Location: northumberland
Posts: 731

United Kingdom 

There’s an easy cure for this-get a drive in a 70s auto. I once had a Viva with a 3 speed lurch-o- matic box, incredibly despite only having 3 gears the engineers managed to ensure that at least 95% of the time it was in the wrong gear.
That memory makes me realise how spoilt we are with today’s ZF offerings. I find it very difficult to criticise any modern auto.

Post #679845 8th Dec 2023 10:49pm
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Benjerbustmills



Member Since: 24 Mar 2021
Location: Thornbury , Bristol
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover HSE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

hotpotatojr wrote:
I've had mine remapped (Quantum Tuning). Under load, it definitely feels more responsible with the obvious boost of torque and power. But it didn't fix the hesitation issues from a standstill.
If I'm pulling out of a junction/roundabout from a standstill, I'll brake boost and there are no issues (I left foot brake). However, if rolling up to a junction (left foot on brake without coming to a stop), then accelerate out into a gap straight away, I experience what you describe as 'suicide' hesitation - it cuts the power, takes a second or so then kicks back in full force. Not fun when you're staring at somebody on your right hand side Smile
I figured it was something to do with holding the brake while accelerating?
Not sure if we are both experiencing the same issue, but try driving down the road and left foot brake while holding the throttle with your right foot and you'll see what I mean - it cuts the power. I thought it may be a safety feature in case someone passes out at the wheel?
I'd love to get it mapped out, along with a gearbox map. But I can't find anyone who does it for a ZF8 on the L322....


Mate. This is exactly what I am experiencing!! I left foot brake all the time, since having been trained in pursuit, offensive & defensive driving techniques.
I will definitely try spooling up the torque converter, before pulling out in front of someone. I spoke to a friend who has a very recent 4.4 with hardly any miles on it, and he casually remarked that they “all do it” I would dearly like to cap off the EGR’s and delete both the strangulation culprits. I’m pretty sure, that the main difference between the 3.6 & 4.4 is the flow rate, which JLR altered to prevent capping off the EGR. You don’t have to remap the 3.6 at all.
Like you, it’s finding someone who really knows what they’re doing, hence my initial request for info regarding a really good Indy specialist.
If you get some Div, who “thinks” he knows, the potential for a costly “f**k up” is pretty high.
To be honest, I know the history of the car, and it’s been maintained regardless of cost. When I blanked off my 3.6, which again was immaculately maintained, there was hardly any residue in the EGR pipes I removed…. But I will start by cleaning the MAP.
Otherwise….Don’t pull out in front of an HGV or tank!

Post #679852 9th Dec 2023 4:51am
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GraemeS



Member Since: 06 Mar 2015
Location: Wagga area
Posts: 2469

Australia 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Bournville

Prior to having EGR mapped-out, whenever hesitation became an issue I always cleaned the MAP sensor to get back to normal responsiveness. Since the remap the MAP sensor has always been clean.

Post #679855 9th Dec 2023 6:48am
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hotpotatojr



Member Since: 05 Oct 2021
Location: Blackpool
Posts: 71

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Santorini Black

It's certainly a pain for me and has been one big consideration in whether I keep the car as it's just not as responsive as I'd like. Never driven an L405 SDV8, wonder if they do the same? I'm convinced it's something that can be mapped out, but unfortunately not by the quantum tuning map I've had.
Since having the EGR mapped out, my MAP sensor hasn't been caked in crap like it used to be when I checked. I've also blanked it off with some stainless plate for good measure.
I'll start another thread on ZF8 remap for these cars as I can't seem to find anything not BMW related.

Post #679861 9th Dec 2023 10:04am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 3195

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

The EGR shuts as soon as anything other than the most gentle power is requested from the acelerator input. The engine control systems are much more advanced on the 4.4 vs the 3.6 and it can measure EGR content in the intake charge so not as easy to fool as the 3.6 with regards to EGR blanking and no evidence it's anything to do with more EGR flow rate on the 4.4. The 4.4 also uses the throttle plate to create intake partial vacuum to control EGR flow so if the EGR sysyem is tar'ed up after a lifetime of 100mile a week short trips it could be contributing to the issue. I dispute the notion that 'they all do it' as some kind of built in fault. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #679862 9th Dec 2023 10:12am
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hotpotatojr



Member Since: 05 Oct 2021
Location: Blackpool
Posts: 71

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Santorini Black

Don't disagree - I don't think its EGR related as (at least in my car) the hesitation is exactly the same now (EGR coded out and blanked off) than it was before.
I haven't driven any other 4.4 TDV8 than my own. My issue with the way it drives is specifically pressing the brake pedal while accelerating causes the revs to drop to idle and stop moving forwards. Does anyone else experience the same? Only other car I've experienced this in is a family member's manual '02 SDI VW Polo. Having left foot braked all my life, I noticed it instantly.

Post #679863 9th Dec 2023 10:26am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 3195

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

It's very likley a saftey feature and I can see very good reasons to have it. Not many people left brake afterall. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #679865 9th Dec 2023 10:39am
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DrRob



Member Since: 16 Apr 2015
Location: Petersfield, Hampshire
Posts: 4301

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue

Does using the flappy paddles help? Gone to a good home: 2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
2025MY Defender D350 90 in Silicon Silver on coils
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
Many, many other Landies over the years
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------

Post #679899 9th Dec 2023 6:16pm
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Benjerbustmills



Member Since: 24 Mar 2021
Location: Thornbury , Bristol
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover HSE TDV8 Stornoway Grey

I’ve driven an SDV8 and to be fair I didn’t notice anything, but my friend assures me, that they behave in exactly the same way.
Left foot braking is just a driving style, that enables you to be “on it” all the time.
Like I’ve said…. When I first got the dreaded “DPF Full” warning, I caned it round the lanes, until it was “pinging” hot. Not once did it misbehave, being driven hard.
The issue, is when you merely want to go from a standing start, to pulling over to the right or left into traffic.
Then…. It could kill you!
Personally, I just think that the ECU, cannot cope with checking everything, from frikkin tyre pressures to engine faults, & it goes into meltdown.
If I knew someone would could do it, I’d have the EGR’s blanked, the guts of the DPF’s ripped out, & the whole thing remapped.
My 2012 322 has a better carbon footprint than any milk float out there!

Post #679902 9th Dec 2023 6:32pm
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GraemeS



Member Since: 06 Mar 2015
Location: Wagga area
Posts: 2469

Australia 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Bournville

Ensure that the pcm software is at the latest level. My April 12 build didn't have the latest version that was already released.

Post #679908 9th Dec 2023 7:33pm
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