This is a question that crops up time and again on this forum with precious little in the way of facts or answers (see "need your thoughts...TDV8" thread on General board right now). Given many of us own TDV8s, I'm sure we would all like to get some insight into a) how common is the problem, b) what the problem is and, c) what might be done to prevent it. Ultimately a turbo is a very simple device (albeit under very high heat and rotational loads) so it must be possible to bottom this issue out.

Can I appeal to the moderator to make this a sticky in the Technical section so we can gather as much information as possible on the subject in one place and try to get to some sort of conclusion.

PLEASE can we not stray off topic into why you should buy a S/C on LPG instead - that is an interesting debate but has been done to death and offers no insight into why TDV8 turbos fail.

I would nominate the following as key question groupings:

1. How common is the problem of catastrophic turbo failure?
a) how many TDV8s were made and how many have been affected
b) is the failure restricted to 3.6 engines or are 4.4 affected as well
c) are a specific age range affected (ie only 2007 cars or is it spread across the years or a specific batch of engine numbers)
d) is the failure related to mileage (particularly low or particularly high mileage)

2. What is the mode of turbo failure?
a) bearing break-up or seizure
b) turbine blade separation
c) degradation due to age (maybe 4.4s aren't failing simply because they are not yet old enough. No one was talking about 3.6 turbo failure 3 years ago...)
d) some other failure mode

3. Why does the turbo fail?
a) lack of mechanical sympathy (eg: hard driving from cold, inadequate cool down after hard use)
b) lack of maintenance (infrequent oil changes, incorrect grade of oil used)
c) turbine manufacturing defect (leading to a whole batch of cars with dodgy turbines waiting to fail)
d) design fault (design does not allow adequate lubrication or cooling or both)
e) out of specification (eg: owner 'chips' the car placing loads on the turbo that it cannot handle)

4. What can be done about it?
a) more regular servicing / different grade of oil
b) different driving style (gentle warm up, gentle cool down - which everyone should do anyway)
c) turbo refurbishment at a specific interval
d) fitment of 4.4 turbos if they are similar in design and, indeed, unaffected by problems themselves


So can we appeal to the technical experts and garage operators on FFRR to contribute their knowledge on this subject so we can see if we can draw any conclusions about the age / mileage / use of cars that are affected. Does anyone have a technical contact at JLR we could approach?

I hope we all find this useful and can navigate our way to a solution / conclusion.

Many thanks
RRG

I believe Turbo failure is MUCH more common in the RRS. Should this be mentioned above?

Gaz, by 'MUCH' can you offer some quantification?

How many Sport TDV8s were made versus FFRR TDV8s?

More Sports on the road would statistically suggest more failures. All the same questions above would apply to Sports...

Any information at this stage is useful...

I don't have figure but I monitor RRS forum and compared to FFRR forum there are many more threads on Turbo Failure:

http://www.rrsport.co.uk/forum/search.php?...rch_time=0

I have not had a turbo failure on any TDV8 3.6 or 4.4 but had a few on other cars and I still think Cam-Tech-Craig is on the right track with EGR and turbo pipe failure being a reason for the turbo failing. I love working on older TDi Landy's and I have seen this same issue here, when the pipes fail and the owner just leaves it until it splits completely so maybe a few months of the turbo being over stressed then they get the pipe repaired and within weeks they suffer a turbo failure. It would be interesting to see if the people on here have had a turbo failure on a TDV8 that has never had EGR issues or any pipes replaced.

My understanding is that the turbo sizes and types are very different between the 3.6 and the 4.4 TDv8. I am told by someone who worked on the 'Lion' engine for Ford which became the 2.7 V6, 3.0 V6. 3.6 V8 and 4.4 V8 Diesels that the 4.4 is a parallel sequential with one small and one large turbo while the 3.6 has two equal size turbos.

I may of course have completely got the wrong end of the stick because he started talking about micro amounts of diesel injected to eliminate the 'Diesel' noise at a certain point in the cycle with these engines. He won the Henry Ford Innovation award for that....apparently. One of those boffin types who are hard to keep up with. 2011 4.4 TDv8 Vogue SE
Zeus Challenger Evo II

Prior to the 5.0 SC, I paid a deposit on a TDV8 3.6. During the selection and testing process we (Gary did most of the work) discovered that one of the turbos needed replacement, which the dealer was doing under warranty. No details on what exactly happened but just that it needed replacement.

At that point in time I decided that, after reading about various TDV8 owners having some sort of turbo issue, that I was not keen on A. This particular Vogue SE despite it meeting almost all my specs and B. TDV8s in particular.

The garage returned the deposit without issues and we searched and found my current car.

Sorry that I can't give you any more details, just that one of the turbos failed.

It was a 2009/59 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 and mileage 61k. MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

I have never heard of a 4.4 Turbo going, they have all been in Sports with either the 2.7 V6 or the 3.6 TDV8 - hence why I am told the TDV8 was dropped from the old Sport 1, and also occurred usually in chipped or mapped vehicles. 2021 L405 Vogue SE 4.4 V8 DIESEL ~ #17

Turbo failure can be attributed to 3 A/B

I believe the RRS is more common, as the turbos are more enclosed with less airflow around the bottom.of the engine, and get hotter than in the FFRR. Couple this with not allowing them to cool properly, and 15k mile service intervals, It's asking for trouble IMHO

I was yeasterday on my mech, and he told me that the turbo failure is not very common.

More with the sports than on the ffrr.

And he also said that most probs must come from the fact of the cars are being warranted out and serviced less by good mechs and with lower grade oils.

I have a tdv8, but would surely love to have the $$$$ to move into a 5.0!

pretty sure the following contribute:

EGR failure
running with a split turbo pipe
poor servicing regime, on milage not time, do it every 12 months without fail, sooner if you drive further.
only use good oils to minimum WSS M2C 913 B
blockage of the turbo oil feed pipe caused by sludge build up because the mechanics are only draining one sump plug not both.
running hot then not allowing time to cool before shutting down. There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Asked my indy on this one. He has been in the game a good few years now. He reckons 4.4 failures are down to what he calls user error i.e oil grades, inadequate maintenance and they are a rarity in his work schedule, whereas 3.6's he reckons are more down to wear with high mileage and he a has about 6 a year which is not a lot compared to the number of vehicles his crew gets through at about average 10 a week dependant on the job of course.

Incidentally, how long dies it take for a 4.4 turbo to 'cool down'? I don't know but do leave it on tick over whilst I undo the seat bet and faff around before turing off. Is this enough?

Perhaps another subsection of RRG's list is the correct warm up / cool off procedure as I would suspect whichever engine you have following correct procedures can only help.

(I can tell SWMBO then as well!!) 405 AB exec seats Baltic and Cirrus
93 RR Classic efi

Remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission!

Gone in order:
4.4 TDV8 SE - gone to a good home
93 Classic hard dash Plymouth Blue
03 L322 Oslo Blue
2000 Disco TD5 ES Epsom Green
98 P38 Rioja Red
89 Classic Cairngorm Brown

Cooling down periods are subject to the drive cycle the engine has just been through. The high end BIG turbo Jap stuff all have "turbo timers" which are linked to an internal temp gauge, so leave the engine running when you exit the car and lock it for a pre determined amount of time... Usually around a minute on a couple of race spec Evo's i know of...

Luck I think is a part of it. Turbos are old enough now to take some stick without failing. Oil is better etc. turbos can go on for hundreds of thousands of miles. As it just spins within a brass bush with an oil bearing as such clean oil is a good start. I remember my old 200tdi. Lost oil pressure and found the big ends worn. As it was an off roader I slung in new end shells and happy days, oil pressure, but wait, with this new found oil pressure I had oil in the exhaust.

Turbo was about to fail, the tips of the impellers had balled into moulting aluminium. Still running though, just.

I think that water plays a big part as well, condensation in an engine that's not run much can do damage to white metal bearing surfaces. I guess that's why my old 200 tdi died in the end, it was always up to its turbo in water, that and the rapid expansions and contraction.

This wouldn't explain for high mileage cars tho. Mine has done 70k. Regular use by the first owner, full lr main dealer history. Now I don't use is, except for weekend short runs, is it a ticking clock for my turbos???

Well, I don't really care, it's a car, I love it and I'm not gonna worry. Just keep it serviced and look after it. What happens happens.

Steve (written on my phone so excuse spelling and grammar) You remind me of a young me, not much younger mind, perhaps even a little older!

Hi,

The problem we have here though is most of the cars on the forum were probably bought second hand. So although we may have a bit of an idea about how they were looked after in the early years, we are really just best guessing.

What would be really useful is to have the experience of someone who bought their car new, has run it for a big mileage under known conditions of servicing and use and then see how it is. I would guess, but not very scientifically I am afraid, that so long as the car was well serviced, good oil was changed regularly and the car was not abused and was allowed to cool down at the end of a hard workout then in all probability it would be okay.

If though someone has neglected the vehicle in its early life, then there is a better chance of it failing in later years. I bought my car with 76k on the clock but with a FLRSH and so far in 5000 miles has been fine. I consider myself mechnically sympathetic and never work the car hard. Hopefully this should help to preserve the vehicle for the future. But should the first owner have abused the car then it probably is about to blow up. I would have no idea until it happened.

So probably the only way I can ensure that all is well would be to strip down the turbo's now and check, replace the oil feed pipes and the hoses. But at what cost? Probably £2000 plus. But at least it would be cheaper than a blown engine.

This is probably not very helpful but is my tuppence worth.

Cheers.

Paul